<VV> Loose axle

Thu Mar 5 17:21:51 EST 2020

Not that simple. I am looking for an on-the-car wheel balancer. The 
nearest one I found is in Atlanta. Pep Boys down the road has a 
'road-force' balancer which I suppose is the next best thing. My wheels 
are Daytons - pretty stock-looking, not like these kids that have the 
wheels hanging out a foot from the wheel arches.
I have my reservations about these wheels Dayton incidentally. I once 
had a wheel fall off as I was backing out of a shed in my back yard. It 
fell off in the space of moving the car ten feet. What had happened was 
that there was a wooden box on the ground just the right height to catch 
the spinner as I backed out. That unscrewed the spinner a turn or two 
and then the drive teeth disengaged and spun the hub the rest of the way 
out.
If the spinners come loose while driving forward, the back wheels will 
tend to screw themselves back on, but if the front spinners come loose, 
the front wheels will fall off when you brake. Not funny. Why don't they 
have proper splines like traditional British Rudge Whitworth wire 
wheels?

On 2020-03-05 17:11, Charles Sadek wrote:
> You wouldn't. That is why offset aftermarket wheel cause problems.
> You have no idea what the centerline inyour wire wheel is, nor where
> the c.g. of the wheel is relative to the centerline. And you haven't
> fixed the wobble. Get that done, then see what is what. You wouldn't
> ignore it on the hvy equipment you work on in the UK...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hugo Miller [mailto:hugo at aruncoaches.co.uk]
> Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2020 5:04 PM
> To: Charles Sadek
> Cc: virtualvairs at corvair.org
> Subject: RE: <VV> Loose axle
>
> If there are large forces present, then it's not ideal! Why would you
> design the forces to act anywhere other than directly through the
> bearing in a straight line? I have no idea what my wheel offset is
> either. I'll see if I can find a drawing somewhere.
>
>
> On 2020-03-05 16:59, Charles Sadek wrote:
>> I have no idea what your wire wheel offset/back spacing is, but I 
>> can
>> assure you that there are large forces present due to offsets from
>> the
>> ideal wheel/tire patch center line thru the bearings.
>>
>> Chuck S
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: VirtualVairs [mailto:virtualvairs-bounces at corvair.org] On
>> Behalf Of Hugo Miller via VirtualVairs
>> Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2020 4:56 PM
>> To: William Hubbell
>> Cc: Virtual Vairs; Doug Mackintosh
>> Subject: Re: <VV> Loose axle
>>
>> Absolutely. But as I said earlier, the weight should be more or less
>> perpendicular through the wheel bearing. The tire should not be
>> outboard
>> of the wheel bearing, or not by much, anyway. So the force on the
>> inner
>> end of the shaft should be minimal at worst. I haven't been
>> underneath
>> with a lever yet by the way.
>>
>>
>> On 2020-03-05 13:31, William Hubbell wrote:
>>> Hugo,
>>>
>>> Think about it - the weight of the car is resting on the tires,
>>> which
>>> are lateral to (outboard) the wheel bearing.  The wheel bearing is
>>> acting as the fulcrum of a lever, with the wheel and tire at one 
>>> end
>>> and the u-joint yoke at the other end.  Because the bearing allows
>>> angular movement, when the weight of the car is on the tires, that
>>> end
>>> of the lever is forced upwards, when in turn will force the yoke 
>>> end
>>> downwards.
>>>
>>> This is easily demonstrated by noticing the change in camber of the
>>> wheel from when it is raised off the ground to when the weight of
>>> the
>>> car is resting on it.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>>> On Mar 5, 2020, at 10:54 AM, Hugo Miller via VirtualVairs
>>>> <virtualvairs at corvair.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes indeed - I'm with you. As soon as I gave this some serious
>>> thought, I realised this set-up would only work with a 
>>> self-aligning
>>> bearing. BUT ... if - IF - the weight of the car sits directly over
>>> the bearing (as it should, pretty much) there won't be any force
>>> acting on the shaft. I guess it is probably off by a bit, but I
>>> still
>>> don't reckon it should be by much. What I'm going to do is stick a
>>> big
>>> lever in there & see if I can get any movement at the inboard end 
>>> of
>>> the shaft.
>>> Having said all that, however, my initial reason for checking the
>>> shafts was to see if they might be the cause of, or contributing 
>>> to,
>>> my wheel wobble that goes in & out of phase. If indeed there IS a
>>> load
>>> on the axle shaft coming from the weight of the car, then it isn't
>>> going to wobble anyway! It may run slightly out of line, but it 
>>> will
>>> at least run true.
>>>
>>>> On 2020-03-05 09:53, Doug Mackintosh wrote:
>>>> Hugo, the wheel bearing allows angular movement since the
>>>> suspension
>>>> arm/bearing mount does not stay in alignment with the axle shaft 
>>>> as
>>>> the suspension arm moves. As a result, when the tire is pushed
>>>> upward
>>>> (e.g. when the car is resting on the tires) the axle assembly can
>>>> rotate about the wheel bearing which will push down the
>>>> differential
>>>> end of the axle. So I think when you rest the car on the ground it
>>>> may
>>>> push down at the differential end and make the slop disappear. Not
>>>> sure how much force there would be at the differential end, but
>>>> likely
>>>> enough that you would not be able to push it with your hand.
>>>>
>>>> <<Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2020 00:51:04 -0500
>>>>
>>>> From: Hugo Miller <hugo at aruncoaches.co.uk [1]>
>>>>
>>>> To: Jim Becker <mr.jebecker at gmail.com [2]>
>>>>
>>>> Cc: <virtualvairs at corvair.org [3]>
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: <VV> Loose axle
>>>>
>>>> Message-ID: <9999202a7456d0bb32d4528e718c4e5e at aruncoaches.co.uk
>>>> [4]>
>>>>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>>>
>>>> Alignment? What alignment? Are you saying thew rear wheel 
>>>> alignment
>>>>
>>>> will change if there is no engine or drivetrain in the car? 
>>>> Because
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>> weight of the car will push upwards on the outer end of the axle
>>>> shaft
>>>>
>>>> and downwards on the inboard end? Is that your point? I see what
>>>> you
>>>>
>>>> mean, but there's a double taper roller bearing at the outer end,
>>>> isn't
>>>>
>>>> there, that I would have expected to hold the whole lot in
>>>> alignment.
>>>>
>>>> Why doesn't it? Or is it a self-aligning bearing? That might
>>>> explain
>>>> why
>>>>
>>>> the tapers look the wrong way round? But then again, if it's
>>>>
>>>> self-aligning, it shouldn't be exerting any force in ANY 
>>>> direction.
>>>> This
>>>>
>>>> all seemed so simple till I started thinking about it!
>>>>
>>>> But when I grabbed it earlier, I was pushing more forwards and
>>>>
>>>> backwards rather than up & down, as I was reaching under the car 
>>>> to
>>>> do
>>>>
>>>> it. I'll try it again tomorrow with more force & see if I can get
>>>>
>>>> anything to move.>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Doug Mackintosh Corsa member since 1996 Corsa/NC member since
>>>> 1996, Virtual Vairs member Corvair owner 1969-1971 and 1996-on
>>>>
>>>> Links:
>>>> ------
>>>> [1] mailto:hugo at aruncoaches.co.uk
>>>> [2] mailto:mr.jebecker at gmail.com
>>>> [3] mailto:virtualvairs at corvair.org
>>>> [4] mailto:9999202a7456d0bb32d4528e718c4e5e at aruncoaches.co.uk
>>>
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