<VV> Loose axle

Thu Mar 5 17:03:46 EST 2020

If there are large forces present, then it's not ideal! Why would you 
design the forces to act anywhere other than directly through the 
bearing in a straight line? I have no idea what my wheel offset is 
either. I'll see if I can find a drawing somewhere.

On 2020-03-05 16:59, Charles Sadek wrote:
> I have no idea what your wire wheel offset/back spacing is, but I can
> assure you that there are large forces present due to offsets from 
> the
> ideal wheel/tire patch center line thru the bearings.
>
> Chuck S
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: VirtualVairs [mailto:virtualvairs-bounces at corvair.org] On
> Behalf Of Hugo Miller via VirtualVairs
> Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2020 4:56 PM
> To: William Hubbell
> Cc: Virtual Vairs; Doug Mackintosh
> Subject: Re: <VV> Loose axle
>
> Absolutely. But as I said earlier, the weight should be more or less
> perpendicular through the wheel bearing. The tire should not be 
> outboard
> of the wheel bearing, or not by much, anyway. So the force on the 
> inner
> end of the shaft should be minimal at worst. I haven't been 
> underneath
> with a lever yet by the way.
>
>
> On 2020-03-05 13:31, William Hubbell wrote:
>> Hugo,
>>
>> Think about it - the weight of the car is resting on the tires, 
>> which
>> are lateral to (outboard) the wheel bearing.  The wheel bearing is
>> acting as the fulcrum of a lever, with the wheel and tire at one end
>> and the u-joint yoke at the other end.  Because the bearing allows
>> angular movement, when the weight of the car is on the tires, that
>> end
>> of the lever is forced upwards, when in turn will force the yoke end
>> downwards.
>>
>> This is easily demonstrated by noticing the change in camber of the
>> wheel from when it is raised off the ground to when the weight of 
>> the
>> car is resting on it.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>> On Mar 5, 2020, at 10:54 AM, Hugo Miller via VirtualVairs
>>> <virtualvairs at corvair.org> wrote:
>>>
>>
>> Yes indeed - I'm with you. As soon as I gave this some serious
>> thought, I realised this set-up would only work with a self-aligning
>> bearing. BUT ... if - IF - the weight of the car sits directly over
>> the bearing (as it should, pretty much) there won't be any force
>> acting on the shaft. I guess it is probably off by a bit, but I 
>> still
>> don't reckon it should be by much. What I'm going to do is stick a
>> big
>> lever in there & see if I can get any movement at the inboard end of
>> the shaft.
>> Having said all that, however, my initial reason for checking the
>> shafts was to see if they might be the cause of, or contributing to,
>> my wheel wobble that goes in & out of phase. If indeed there IS a
>> load
>> on the axle shaft coming from the weight of the car, then it isn't
>> going to wobble anyway! It may run slightly out of line, but it will
>> at least run true.
>>
>>> On 2020-03-05 09:53, Doug Mackintosh wrote:
>>> Hugo, the wheel bearing allows angular movement since the 
>>> suspension
>>> arm/bearing mount does not stay in alignment with the axle shaft as
>>> the suspension arm moves. As a result, when the tire is pushed
>>> upward
>>> (e.g. when the car is resting on the tires) the axle assembly can
>>> rotate about the wheel bearing which will push down the 
>>> differential
>>> end of the axle. So I think when you rest the car on the ground it
>>> may
>>> push down at the differential end and make the slop disappear. Not
>>> sure how much force there would be at the differential end, but
>>> likely
>>> enough that you would not be able to push it with your hand.
>>>
>>> <<Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2020 00:51:04 -0500
>>>
>>> From: Hugo Miller <hugo at aruncoaches.co.uk [1]>
>>>
>>> To: Jim Becker <mr.jebecker at gmail.com [2]>
>>>
>>> Cc: <virtualvairs at corvair.org [3]>
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: <VV> Loose axle
>>>
>>> Message-ID: <9999202a7456d0bb32d4528e718c4e5e at aruncoaches.co.uk 
>>> [4]>
>>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>>
>>> Alignment? What alignment? Are you saying thew rear wheel alignment
>>>
>>> will change if there is no engine or drivetrain in the car? Because
>>> the
>>>
>>> weight of the car will push upwards on the outer end of the axle
>>> shaft
>>>
>>> and downwards on the inboard end? Is that your point? I see what 
>>> you
>>>
>>> mean, but there's a double taper roller bearing at the outer end,
>>> isn't
>>>
>>> there, that I would have expected to hold the whole lot in
>>> alignment.
>>>
>>> Why doesn't it? Or is it a self-aligning bearing? That might 
>>> explain
>>> why
>>>
>>> the tapers look the wrong way round? But then again, if it's
>>>
>>> self-aligning, it shouldn't be exerting any force in ANY direction.
>>> This
>>>
>>> all seemed so simple till I started thinking about it!
>>>
>>> But when I grabbed it earlier, I was pushing more forwards and
>>>
>>> backwards rather than up & down, as I was reaching under the car to
>>> do
>>>
>>> it. I'll try it again tomorrow with more force & see if I can get
>>>
>>> anything to move.>>
>>>
>>> -- Doug Mackintosh Corsa member since 1996 Corsa/NC member since
>>> 1996, Virtual Vairs member Corvair owner 1969-1971 and 1996-on
>>>
>>> Links:
>>> ------
>>> [1] mailto:hugo at aruncoaches.co.uk
>>> [2] mailto:mr.jebecker at gmail.com
>>> [3] mailto:virtualvairs at corvair.org
>>> [4] mailto:9999202a7456d0bb32d4528e718c4e5e at aruncoaches.co.uk
>>
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