<VV> VirtualVairs Digest, Vol 40, Issue 130
djtcz at comcast.net
djtcz at comcast.net
Sat May 31 12:42:57 EDT 2008
--
snipped and bottom posted
Dan Timberlake
Westford, Massachusetts, USA
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: sway bar decision & detailed spec (corvairduval at cox.net)
> 2. Re: Front sway bar hardware (John Kepler)
> 3. Re: Front sway bar hardware (Craig Nicol)
> 4. Re: OLD FUEL? (FrankCB at aol.com)
> 5. concours parts, was: Front sway bar hardware (Mark Corbin)
> 6. Re: concours parts, was: Front sway bar hardware (Craig Nicol)
> 7. Re: Front sway bar hardware (Rick Norris)
> 8. Re: Hocky Stick (Louis Armer)
> 9. Re: OLD FUEL? (Sethracer at aol.com)
> 10. Chevy dealer's widow reminisces (Wrsssatty at aol.com)
> 11. Hemmings Sports & Exotic Car (Wrsssatty at aol.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 16:15:24 -0400
> From: "corvairduval at cox.net"
> Subject: Re: sway bar decision & detailed spec
> To: cfmann at yahoo.com, virtualvairs at corvair.org
> Message-ID: <380-220085530201524817 at M2W030.mail2web.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Just black electrical tape, the orange has less structural value and the
> red requires way too much torque.
>
> The size of the bolt holding the sway bar in is 5/16-18. IIRC, the length
> is about 1 1/4". I think 1" will work if the pieces can be held in place
> with Channel Locks, Vise Grips or other pliers while inserting the bolts.
>
> Here is a table for torque values based on the size of the bolt:
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/pontiacdude428/Bolt.html
>
> There are many others with a Google search.
>
> Frank DuVal
>
>
> So use buggy cords and electrical tape.... lol, just kidding.
>
> OK, OK great discussion everyone, thank you.
>
> So to follow the KISS principle, I have two choices, one, grade 5 on all
> six bolts and shop manual specified torque; or two, grade eight, and a
> revised torque value. If the latter choice, do I torque by a percentage
> value or is there something else to follow, say like, someone else's
> experience?
>
> Last, could I needle some more info out of you all, like size and thread of
> the bolts needed since I have no reference materia? (I really want to get
> the assembly manual soon)...
>
> chris
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 16:15:59 -0400
> From: "John Kepler"
> Subject: Re: Front sway bar hardware
> To: "'Craig Nicol'" ,
> Message-ID: <000c01c8c291$fa1b03a0$6401a8c0 at pickands2a209f>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hold on there pardners... If GM used grade 5 and you upgrade to grade 8
> you'll have to recalculate the proper bolt torque.
>
> That's why they invented Loctite. Also, you can find the torque correction
> in ANY engineering manual, and a quick Google search turned up several
> hundred tables of same!
>
> Also in the
> future, when someone works on the front end, they're likely to tighten
> according to the book, again getting us back to loosening bolts even if you
> do it right this time.
>
> Spurious argument.....even if you're a "Shade-Tree Mechanic", if you see a
> Grade 8 fastener, you should have enough sense to torque it to Grade 8
> specs.
>
> Strongly suggest replacing with identical hardware. It's good enough to last
> 40+ years and endure racing;
>
> Not in ANY race car I ever built!
>
> why mess with that?
>
> Because I'm not trying to save a few pennies!
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 13:40:11 -0700
> From: "Craig Nicol"
> Subject: Re: Front sway bar hardware
> To: "'John Kepler'" ,
> Message-ID: <001e01c8c295$5be8d3c0$6401a8c0 at HPOFFICE>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
>
>
> Craig wrote: Also in the future, when someone works on the front end,
> they're likely to tighten according to the book, again getting us back to
> loosening bolts even if you do it right this time.
>
> John replies: Spurious argument.....even if you're a "Shade-Tree Mechanic",
> if you see a
> Grade 8 fastener, you should have enough sense to torque it to Grade 8
> specs.
>
> Craig replies:
> Spurious???
>
> What percentage of folk do you think will know that the grade 8 bolt in the
> hole wasn't there to begin with? Do think they'll research it, correctly
> conclude that it was originally a grade 5, recognize that it's now a grade
> 8, know that that requires tighter torque to stay put, and act accordingly,
> or will they just tighten it until it feels good with the better wrenches
> tightening it to factory specs? The plan to unilaterally substitute grade 8
> because they're "better" plan is a design for failure. I don't agree at all
> with the notion of putting in bolts that will require thoughtful special
> treatment or they will fall out. What's the point of that?
>
> Craig
> (I apologize for my tone, but at the moment I'm really angry with CORSA on
> an unrelated matter at the moment.)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 17:07:24 EDT
> From: FrankCB at aol.com
> Subject: Re: OLD FUEL?
> To: blblackmon at att.net, virtualvairs at corvair.org
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
> You're talking about putting diesel fuel into a gasoline burning vheicle??
> Chances of diesel raising the octane rating of gasoline are about the same as
> me getting a date with Paris Hilton!!!! What kind of driving conditions in
> what sort of vehicle are giving you only 13.5 mpg??? My Minivan can get 28
> mpg (regular gas) on a long trip of 300+ miles on major highways. I would
> instead suggest you make efforts at improving your vehicle's efficiency and
> your
> driving methods to raise you mpg.
> Frank "frugal" Burkhard
>
>
> In a message dated 5/30/2008 2:03:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> blblackmon at att.net writes:
>
> Just wondering, does old diesel fuel act the same as gas and break down to
> varnish, or is it different? I ask because I have 2 gallons that are about 3
> years old. I want to try a little diesel in the tank and then fill up so it
> mixes good. It is supposed to raise the octane level, and give you better
> mileage because it has more hydrocarbons that plain gas. I will try anything to
> get better than 13.5 mpg. Any ideas?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
> Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
> (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 18:04:54 -0400
> From: "Mark Corbin"
> Subject: concours parts, was: Front sway bar hardware
> To: "Craig Nicol" , "John Kepler"
> , virtualvairs at corvair.org
> Message-ID: <380-22008553022454656 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> With all this talk about stainless, grade 5 vs grade 8, etc., I'd like to
> know just what kind of parts a concours car should use, particularly
> chassis parts. I'd like to use all stainless on everything, including all
> the special stainless tie rods, strut rods, etc. that show up in the
> Clark's catalog listings. Anything we should know about in that respect? Or
> are some parts that have been repopped in stainless not such a good idea?
>
> -Mark
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> >
> > Craig wrote: Also in the future, when someone works on the front end,
> > they're likely to tighten according to the book, again getting us back to
> > loosening bolts even if you do it right this time.
> >
> > John replies: Spurious argument.....even if you're a "Shade-Tree
> Mechanic",
> > if you see a
> > Grade 8 fastener, you should have enough sense to torque it to Grade 8
> > specs.
> >
> > Craig replies:
> > Spurious???
> >
> > What percentage of folk do you think will know that the grade 8 bolt in
> the
> > hole wasn't there to begin with? Do think they'll research it, correctly
> > conclude that it was originally a grade 5, recognize that it's now a grade
> > 8, know that that requires tighter torque to stay put, and act
> accordingly,
> > or will they just tighten it until it feels good with the better wrenches
> > tightening it to factory specs? The plan to unilaterally substitute
> grade 8
> > because they're "better" plan is a design for failure. I don't agree at
> all
> > with the notion of putting in bolts that will require thoughtful special
> > treatment or they will fall out. What's the point of that?
> >
> > Craig
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 15:19:27 -0700
> From: "Craig Nicol"
> Subject: Re: concours parts, was: Front sway bar hardware
> To: ,
> Message-ID: <003401c8c2a3$39de8000$6401a8c0 at HPOFFICE>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
>
> Mark asked:
> With all this talk about stainless, grade 5 vs grade 8, etc., I'd like to
> know just what kind of parts a concours car should use, particularly
> chassis parts. I'd like to use all stainless on everything, including all
> the special stainless tie rods, strut rods, etc. that show up in the
> Clark's catalog listings. Anything we should know about in that respect? Or
> are some parts that have been repopped in stainless not such a good idea?
>
> -Mark
>
> Craig replies:
> In our concours rules, except for factory stock, you can use any kind of
> bolt you want (safe or not, we'll get to that later) as long as the bolt is
> clean and perfect. Deviations from stock simply put you in another class.
>
> Safe or not: Deviations from the stock specifications require some thought.
> Common stainless steel hardware is roughly equivalent to Grade 2, which is
> considerably weaker than the grade 5 stuff that's in most Corvair suspension
> applications. Higher grade stainless fasteners are costly and are not
> commonly available. Switching to Grade 8 sounds logical but requires
> thoughtful service adjustments since they require more torque or thread
> locking compounds in order to stay tight.
>
> Some people solve the concours problem by having two sets of fasteners: one
> set for holding the car together and enduring the ravages and another set
> (installed just prior to the show) that are kept in pristine condition and
> are only gently installed so as to not mar their delicate surface coatings.
> Personally, I think that approach is insane but that's what people do to
> win.
> Craig Nicol
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 20:04:18 -0400
> From: "Rick Norris"
> Subject: Re: Front sway bar hardware
> To: "Craig Nicol" , "'John Kepler'"
> ,
> Message-ID: <00b201c8c2b1$df98eb80$6701a8c0 at RICK>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
>
> > > (I apologize for my tone, but at the moment I'm really angry with CORSA
> > > on
> > an unrelated matter at the moment.)
> Craig
>
> Oh sure,
> Just go ahead and take it out on us!!
> I have five kids, been married twice and been to Vietnam!
> You can't scare me!
>
> TLH GGG!
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 21:28:04 -0400
> From: Louis Armer
> Subject: Re: Hocky Stick
> To: Smitty Smith
> Cc: virtualvairs at corvair.org
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Did you answer his question??? No one else has done anything except
> BS about it!!!
>
> FrontMan
> ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
> ///////////////////////
>
> At 01:43 PM 5/30/2008, you wrote:
> >Smitty Says: John while you are ranting and raving about the
> >control rod's proper name why don't you take on all the people that
> >call the relay rod a drag link. BTW, did you ever answer the guys question?
> >///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
> ////////////////////////////////////
>
> CORSA Tri-membership Chairman
> CORSA Member
> Corvanatics Member
> Corvair Atlanta Director
> SECC Member
> 1965 Corsa Coupe
> 1964 Greenbrier
> 1965 Corsa Autocross car 1/2 owner
> http://darthvair.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 21:34:11 EDT
> From: Sethracer at aol.com
> Subject: Re: OLD FUEL?
> To: blblackmon at att.net, virtualvairs at corvair.org
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
> In a message dated 5/30/2008 11:03:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> blblackmon at att.net writes:
>
> It is supposed to raise the octane level, and give you better mileage
> because it has more hydrocarbons that plain gas.
>
>
> If you want a diesel, buy a diesel. The amount of BTUs in the gasoline has
> no relationship to it's octane rating. Diesel fuel is specifically designed to
> burn without a spark. It will influence you gasoline engine to do the same,
> burn early or even explode it's fuel, instead of burning. That is called
> pre-ignition or pinging. If you want to con your friends into thinking you have
> a
> diesel - and like to pay $5 a gallon, go ahead. Under any load, your
> engine may begin to sound like one! - Seth Emerson
>
>
>
> **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
> Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
> (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 22:02:30 EDT
> From: Wrsssatty at aol.com
> Subject: Chevy dealer's widow reminisces
> To: virtualvairs at corvair.org
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> When I have non-Corvair specific work to be done on one of my Corvairs I
> take it to an independent garage where a good friend works as a mechanic. The
> garage was a Chevy dealership from the '30s through the late '70s. The late
> dealer's widow still owns the building and is the landlady. I had my '63
> Monza coupe there today for front wheel bearings, an idler arm and rear brake
> cylinders. After doing the work, my friend road tested the car and then parked
> it in front. While we were going over the bill a little old lady walked in.
> It was the late Chevy dealer's widow. She happened to be driving by, saw
> the car and wanted to stop in and ask about it. She reminisced about the many
> Corvair demonstrators she drove back in the day, how much she liked them and
> how misinformed a certain famous person was about the car. As she left I, of
> course, told her that if she ever comes across any Corvair memorabilia from
> the dealership.... She replied that she had a lot of "trash" in the attic to
> go through. I reminded her that one woman's trash is another man's treasure!
>
> ~Bill Stanley
>
>
>
> **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
> Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
> (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 22:08:08 EDT
> From: Wrsssatty at aol.com
> Subject: Hemmings Sports & Exotic Car
> To: virtualvairs at corvair.org
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> The May 2008 issue of Hemmings Sports & Exotic Car (Vol. 3, Issue 9) has an
> article starting on page 40 entitled "Not Fade Away" about "the early combat
> fields of sports cars." At the top of page 41 is a photograph of the August
> 18, 1962 Marlboro 12 Hour Sedan race. Leading the pack is an early coupe.
> The caption reads in pertinent part; "...a factory Corvair in front. The race
> marked the competition debut of the turbocharged Corvair, and it was driven
> by Charlie Hayes and Bob Davis to first in Class A and 11th overall."
>
> ~Bill Stanley
>
>
>
> **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
> Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
> (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> This message was sent by the VirtualVairs mailing list, all copyrights are the
> property
> of the writer, please attribute properly. For help, mail to: vv-help at corvair.org
> This list sponsored by the Corvair Society of America, http://www.corvair.org/
> VirtualVairs at corvair.org
> http://www.vv.corvair.org/mailman/listinfo/virtualvairs
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