<VV> Ethanol? filter problems? (HUH?) (minimal Corvair content)

[Eric S. Eberhard]

http://www.bioproducts-bioenergy.gov/pdfpresentations/Net%20Energy%20Balance%20of%20Corn%20Ethanol_Shapouri.ppt#279,20,Slide 
20

This is 2001 data, I have no link for newer data, but I saw a show that 
said it was 65,000 btu (or about 50%) as of 2005.  Even at say 30,000 btu 
it is a net gain of 25%.  Note that gasoline is NOT 100% because it, too, 
needs refining and transport and mining and so forth.  Gasoline runs about 
95,000-105,000 net gain (about 80-85%) according to various sources ...


At 02:39 PM 6/19/2005, RoboMan91324 at aol.com wrote:
>Hi Tony,
>
>Are we talking apples and oranges here?
>
>"BTUs" would indicate energy content of one of the fuels.  By the way, 15%
>gain of what over what?  The section you snipped from my previous post is 
>part
>of a statement expressing concern about the amount of energy it takes to 
>make a
>specified amount of alcohol and if it makes technical sense compared to other
>energy sources.  I used gasoline for comparison because it is the competing
>fuel we are discussing here.  Most of the energy use in the USA comes from
>fossil based fuels.
>
>I will readily admit that the basis of my statement may come from an aged
>source.  What is the source of your information?  I would be happy to look it
>over and change my opinion if presented with actual facts.  Please send 
>the link
>or links off digest.
>
>Please note that the cost of a gallon of gasoline includes the costs of
>pulling it from the ground, transporting it, refining (cracking) it and a 
>bunch of
>other things all of which take energy.  To be comparable, the energy cost of
>alcohol should include the energy used to plant it (grain, ?), the energy it
>takes to make the fertilizer, harvest it, transportation, changing the 
>grain to
>alcohol, etc.  Comparing purchase price to purchase price gets very clouded
>when you include subsidies, price gouging, etc.
>
>According to the other posts in this train, it seems that our Corvairs are
>capable of using a certain percentage of alcohol in the fuel.  I question
>whether it is a viable alternative from a technical perspective, not from 
>a PC
>perspective.  If it is viable, perhaps we will be better off in the long 
>run.  If
>not, I strongly object to having it forced down my throat especially
>considering that the "powers that be" are benefiting from what appears to 
>be a campaign
>of misinformation and picking all of our pockets in the process to pay for 
>it.
>  Government intrudes into our lives in so many ways.  Much of it is thinly
>disguised as a "benefit" to us all.  A case in point is the repeated 
>efforts to
>have us remove our classic cars from the road.  Edited, incomplete and false
>information is often used to justify these self serving bills that 
>politicians
>propose.  The politicians know that even though their bill may have a 
>negative
>overall impact on the environment, they will get more votes for "getting
>those polluting Corviars, etc. off the road" than they will lose by 
>pissing us
>off.  Yes, this is a little off the topic of gasohol but is on topic in the
>larger picture of politicians and special interests forcing things down 
>our throats
>through the use of misinformation.
>
>I will get off my soap box for now.
>
>Doc
>~~~~~~~~~
>In a message dated 6/18/2005 10:33:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>virtualvairs-request at corvair.org writes:
>Message: 4
>Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 00:10:00 -0500
>From: corsaconvertible <corsaconvertible at gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: <VV> RE: Ethanol? filter problems? (HUH?)
>To: virtualvairs at corvair.org
>Message-ID: <7c51866205061822103eae7786 at mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>Very old and inaccurate figures. Currently there is about a 15% gain in BTU's.
>--
>Tony Hansen
>corsaconvertible at gmail.com
>
><snip>
>On 6/17/05, RoboMan91324 at aol.com <RoboMan91324 at aol.com> wrote:
> > When it takes the approximate energy equivalent of 1.5 - 1.7 gallons of
>gasoline to take corn, sugar beets or whatever from the ground to the end
>product, how is that less expensive?  I am not certain that 1.5 - 1.7 is 
>the real
>range but estimates are close to that. <end snip>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Eric S. Eberhard
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