<VV> Re: Re: DIFF BETWEEN MONZA AND CORSA ( Long explanation post)

Thu Dec 22 12:55:49 EST 2005

Good grief people......................

Bigwave Dave wrote:

>Mike
>
>Wow, I'm surprised at how insistent many Corvair hobbyist are in trying to
>disprove the idea that the shifters are different between the Monza and
>Corsa. I guess some will believe what they want to believe regardless of the
>proof. I even got an emailed stating that Clarks made a mistake on there RB
>engine code in the tech section so I should not use them as a source of
>info. Well I checked the RB code and it was correct in my Clarks catalog,
>and I have used the catalog to help with parts identification for years
>without mishap. I'd say they are better than 99.9% correct in what they
>state, so why would you not use them as a source of info. The info about the
>Corsa shift lever being different has been in the Clarks catalog for years
>and I'm sure would have been corrected if found to be untrue.
>
>I'm surprised you didn't ask for the same amount of Proof from Craig when he
>claimed they were the same. Nowhere on the Assembly manual is the shift
>levers in question labeled as 3 speed shifters. Even if they were, why would
>there be a difference between the Corsa three speed shifter and the Monza 3
>spd shifter. Does that make sense to you? Do you believe GM would spend the
>money to make two different shifters when at most the number of Corsas with
>three spds number in the double digits. I have only heard of a handfull of
>Corsas equipped with a three spd. Its all irrelevant anyway, the point is
>that GM produced a different shifter for the Corsa models. I'll explain why
>I believe Craig is wrong.
>
>Facts supporting the claim that the Corsa shifter is different from Monza
>and 500:
>
>1). 1965 GM assembly manual gear shift control schematic which specifically
>covers the shifter assembly states there are 2 different part numbers for
>the shift lever, one for 10100 - 10500, and one specifically for 10700 and
>labeled Corsa only.
>
>This Schematic is specific for the gearshift assembly and lists all parts in
>a exploded view.
>
>2) 1966 GM assembly manual gear shift control schematic which specifically
>covers the shifter assembly states there are 2 different part numbers for
>the shift lever, one for 10100 - 10500, and one specifically for 10700 and
>labeled Corsa only. This agrees with the 65 manual
>
>This Schematic is specific for the gearshift assembly and lists all parts in
>a exploded view.
>
>3). Part numbers for the 1965 shift lever are 3872870 for Monza/500 models
>and 3872871 for Corsa models
>
>These numbers are superceded by the following numbers for the 1966 model
>year: 3881738 for the Monza/500 model and 3872872 for the Corsa model.
>
>4). The parts catalog lists the 3872870 for the Monza/500 lever. This is the
>1965 assembly manual number. The number used for the Corsa exclusive shifter
>in the parts catalog is the one from the 66 Assembly manual (3872872). The
>Parts catalog specifically states that there are 2 different Shifter
>assemblies, one for Monza/500 and one for the Corsa model.
>
>5). Clarks Corvair catalog which I consider an excellent reference, lists
>the Corsa shifter as different from the Monza in two separate listing. The
>first lists part CX2912 as original Corsa shifter lever but may be used as
>replacement for 65-69 model . The second has a note that is highlighted on
>the Quick shifter kit ( C3943A) warning buyers that the original Corsa
>shifter is quicker and use of the kit makes the throw very short.
>
>6) Mark Corbin gives anecdotal evidence that the Shifter is shorter. For
>those who are not familiar with Mark, He is a respected long time member of
>Corsa (Mark has been with Corsa since the dinosaur days :o) ) and I consider
>him an expert regarding the Difference between Corsas and Monzas. For those
>who don't know the story, Mark has had his go rounds with the Concours
>committee regarding his 1969 Corsa which he built with Corsa parts.
>
>So facts supporting my position:
>
>1. Gm parts manual states two different shifter levers, one of Monza/500 and
>one for Corsas. (This is usually considered the definitive source)
>
>2. 1965 assembly manual list two different shifter levers in the Gearshift
>specific schematic.
>
>3. 1966 assembly manual list two different shifter levers in the Gearshift
>specific schematic.
>
>4. Major longtime Corvair Vendor who supports the Corvair hobby states 2
>different levers.
>
>5. Anecdotal evidence from several Corvair owners including Mark C.
>
>6. Gear shift lever identified as 4 spd lever in the 65 manual is listed as
>Corsa only in 1966 Assembly manual and Corvair parts catalog
>
>
>
>Facts used to refute the statement that the levers are different.
>
>1. 1965 Assembly manual options schematic for the "Four speed transmission
>backing lamp"
>
>This schematic is specifically for the backup lamp/switch wiring. It is not
>the schematic for the gearshift assembly. The drawing emphasizes the Backup
>light harness and switch, not the shifter. The shifter is shown only to show
>some adjustment values and instructions on how to line up the shifter knob.
>The only listed part number is the lever. GM did not bother to list both
>lever numbers because it was not important to the schematic. The Schematic
>specific for the gearshift assembly list 2 different levers and that's the
>one you should refer to. This schematic shows an exploded view of the gear
>shift assembly and lists all 14 parts, not just one. as a matter of fact,
>the "Four speed transmission backing lamp" schematic was deleted from the
>1966 manual since there was not a  different switch involve anymore and the
>shifter info was redundant.
>
>2. It was stated that the gearshift levers in the assembly manual schematic
>for the gearshift assembly are both 3 speed levers.
>
>There is no statement in either the 1965, 1966 assembly manuals or the
>Corvair parts manual that support this statement.
>
>3. The assumption is made that since only one number is listed on the "Four
>speed transmission backing lamp" schematic, then the different parts numbers
>in the Gearshift assembly schematic must be three speeds. (1965 Assembly
>manual)
>
>This was an incorrect assumption, the "Four speed transmission backing lamp"
>schematic is not specific for the gear shift assembly and if you take a look
>at the identical Gearshift assembly schematic in the 1966 Assembly manual,
>you will find that the "Corsa only" shift lever part number is the same as
>the number listed in the Four speed transmission backing lamp schematic.
>This part number (3879762) is listed as a four spd in the 65 assembly manual
>and as Corsa only in the 66 assembly manual and the Corvair parts catalog.
>
>So since the official GM manuals state that part (3879762) is a four Speed
>lever, and two other official GM manuals stated that this part number is a
>Corsa Specific gearshift lever, then I believe we can safely say that the
>4spd shift lever for the Corsa models were different form the Monza/500
>models. Now add Clarks Corvairs shifter info as corroborating evidence and
>its a done deal.
>
>Bigwave Dave
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mhicks130 at cox.net>
>To: "Bigwave Dave" <thebigwave at comcast.net>
>Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 10:49 AM
>Subject: Re: Re: DIFF BETWEEN MONZA AND CORSA
>
>
>  
>
>>Uh oh Dave, you convinced but now Craig has convinced me otherwise!!  What
>>    
>>
>a mystery.  I hope we can figure this out someday.  I think I'll add a
>shifter mechanism difference callout on my list but asterisk it as
>disputed - for now anyway.
>  
>
>>mike
>>
>>    
>>
>
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