<VV> Re: Re: DIFF BETWEEN MONZA AND CORSA ( Long explanation post)

[Bigwave Dave]

Mike

Wow, I'm surprised at how insistent many Corvair hobbyist are in trying to
disprove the idea that the shifters are different between the Monza and
Corsa. I guess some will believe what they want to believe regardless of the
proof. I even got an emailed stating that Clarks made a mistake on there RB
engine code in the tech section so I should not use them as a source of
info. Well I checked the RB code and it was correct in my Clarks catalog,
and I have used the catalog to help with parts identification for years
without mishap. I'd say they are better than 99.9% correct in what they
state, so why would you not use them as a source of info. The info about the
Corsa shift lever being different has been in the Clarks catalog for years
and I'm sure would have been corrected if found to be untrue.

I'm surprised you didn't ask for the same amount of Proof from Craig when he
claimed they were the same. Nowhere on the Assembly manual is the shift
levers in question labeled as 3 speed shifters. Even if they were, why would
there be a difference between the Corsa three speed shifter and the Monza 3
spd shifter. Does that make sense to you? Do you believe GM would spend the
money to make two different shifters when at most the number of Corsas with
three spds number in the double digits. I have only heard of a handfull of
Corsas equipped with a three spd. Its all irrelevant anyway, the point is
that GM produced a different shifter for the Corsa models. I'll explain why
I believe Craig is wrong.

Facts supporting the claim that the Corsa shifter is different from Monza
and 500:

1). 1965 GM assembly manual gear shift control schematic which specifically
covers the shifter assembly states there are 2 different part numbers for
the shift lever, one for 10100 - 10500, and one specifically for 10700 and
labeled Corsa only.

This Schematic is specific for the gearshift assembly and lists all parts in
a exploded view.

2) 1966 GM assembly manual gear shift control schematic which specifically
covers the shifter assembly states there are 2 different part numbers for
the shift lever, one for 10100 - 10500, and one specifically for 10700 and
labeled Corsa only. This agrees with the 65 manual

This Schematic is specific for the gearshift assembly and lists all parts in
a exploded view.

3). Part numbers for the 1965 shift lever are 3872870 for Monza/500 models
and 3872871 for Corsa models

These numbers are superceded by the following numbers for the 1966 model
year: 3881738 for the Monza/500 model and 3872872 for the Corsa model.

4). The parts catalog lists the 3872870 for the Monza/500 lever. This is the
1965 assembly manual number. The number used for the Corsa exclusive shifter
in the parts catalog is the one from the 66 Assembly manual (3872872). The
Parts catalog specifically states that there are 2 different Shifter
assemblies, one for Monza/500 and one for the Corsa model.

5). Clarks Corvair catalog which I consider an excellent reference, lists
the Corsa shifter as different from the Monza in two separate listing. The
first lists part CX2912 as original Corsa shifter lever but may be used as
replacement for 65-69 model . The second has a note that is highlighted on
the Quick shifter kit ( C3943A) warning buyers that the original Corsa
shifter is quicker and use of the kit makes the throw very short.

6) Mark Corbin gives anecdotal evidence that the Shifter is shorter. For
those who are not familiar with Mark, He is a respected long time member of
Corsa (Mark has been with Corsa since the dinosaur days :o) ) and I consider
him an expert regarding the Difference between Corsas and Monzas. For those
who don't know the story, Mark has had his go rounds with the Concours
committee regarding his 1969 Corsa which he built with Corsa parts.

So facts supporting my position:

1. Gm parts manual states two different shifter levers, one of Monza/500 and
one for Corsas. (This is usually considered the definitive source)

2. 1965 assembly manual list two different shifter levers in the Gearshift
specific schematic.

3. 1966 assembly manual list two different shifter levers in the Gearshift
specific schematic.

4. Major longtime Corvair Vendor who supports the Corvair hobby states 2
different levers.

5. Anecdotal evidence from several Corvair owners including Mark C.

6. Gear shift lever identified as 4 spd lever in the 65 manual is listed as
Corsa only in 1966 Assembly manual and Corvair parts catalog



Facts used to refute the statement that the levers are different.

1. 1965 Assembly manual options schematic for the "Four speed transmission
backing lamp"

This schematic is specifically for the backup lamp/switch wiring. It is not
the schematic for the gearshift assembly. The drawing emphasizes the Backup
light harness and switch, not the shifter. The shifter is shown only to show
some adjustment values and instructions on how to line up the shifter knob.
The only listed part number is the lever. GM did not bother to list both
lever numbers because it was not important to the schematic. The Schematic
specific for the gearshift assembly list 2 different levers and that's the
one you should refer to. This schematic shows an exploded view of the gear
shift assembly and lists all 14 parts, not just one. as a matter of fact,
the "Four speed transmission backing lamp" schematic was deleted from the
1966 manual since there was not a  different switch involve anymore and the
shifter info was redundant.

2. It was stated that the gearshift levers in the assembly manual schematic
for the gearshift assembly are both 3 speed levers.

There is no statement in either the 1965, 1966 assembly manuals or the
Corvair parts manual that support this statement.

3. The assumption is made that since only one number is listed on the "Four
speed transmission backing lamp" schematic, then the different parts numbers
in the Gearshift assembly schematic must be three speeds. (1965 Assembly
manual)

This was an incorrect assumption, the "Four speed transmission backing lamp"
schematic is not specific for the gear shift assembly and if you take a look
at the identical Gearshift assembly schematic in the 1966 Assembly manual,
you will find that the "Corsa only" shift lever part number is the same as
the number listed in the Four speed transmission backing lamp schematic.
This part number (3879762) is listed as a four spd in the 65 assembly manual
and as Corsa only in the 66 assembly manual and the Corvair parts catalog.

So since the official GM manuals state that part (3879762) is a four Speed
lever, and two other official GM manuals stated that this part number is a
Corsa Specific gearshift lever, then I believe we can safely say that the
4spd shift lever for the Corsa models were different form the Monza/500
models. Now add Clarks Corvairs shifter info as corroborating evidence and
its a done deal.

Bigwave Dave



----- Original Message -----
From: <mhicks130 at cox.net>
To: "Bigwave Dave" <thebigwave at comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: Re: DIFF BETWEEN MONZA AND CORSA


> Uh oh Dave, you convinced but now Craig has convinced me otherwise!!  What
a mystery.  I hope we can figure this out someday.  I think I'll add a
shifter mechanism difference callout on my list but asterisk it as
disputed - for now anyway.
>
> mike
>