[FC] Springs for "working" Rampside

[RoboMan91324 at aol.com]

Joel,
 
I always enjoy when someone tells of their isolated experience to refute a  
broader concept.  I do it too, though I try to avoid it when I realize I am 
 doing it.
 
Here is my logic on the subject.
 
1.)  Much of our discourse here on VV has to do with protecting our  
engines from cooking and/or knocking themselves to death.  There is good  reason 
for that because our engines need protection.  They were designed  and built 
with 50s technology and are now quite old by any standard.  Your  mention of 
deflashing and shroud removal are good examples of this discourse and  
great advice.  Many, many, many people run their engines without the  benefit of 
deflashing and they run OK.  Despite that, your advice has  great value.  
Not everyone needs it but some may need it without knowing  it.  In general, 
Corvair engines are more likely to fry than water  pumpers and because of 
the weight and poor aerodynamics, the FC engines are more  endangered than 
cars.  Evidence of this is that you see many more car  engines in FCs than FC 
engines in cars.  FC engines self-destruct more  often as a percentage.  
Contrary to your implication, engines in UltraVans  do cook.  This would 
especially be the case if they ignored the points I  made in my earlier post.  
However, because UV owners are well aware  (MUST be aware) that the extra weight 
and air drag is more of an issue than in  other vehicles, they are more 
careful while driving than your average car or FC  driver.  The highest rear 
ratio of all and other measures were used to  minimize these issues.  Also, 
most UV owners I know incorporate safety  measures as the technology becomes 
available.  Temp gages/lights/buzzers,  anti knock devices, synthetic oil, 
deflashing heads, etc.  They incorporate  these measures because they are 
aware of the needs of their UVs.  Why  shouldn't FC owners have the same 
knowledge?  The UV drivers must be aware  of the issues and my post was an attempt 
to make FC owners aware of their issues  as well.  The next time you can 
talk with an UV owner, ask him or her if  they think they need to take more 
precautions with their vehicle than someone  with a Corvair car or even an FC.  
Most, if not all, will say yes and if  any say no, it is likely that they 
have already added reliability modifications  to ease their minds.
 
2.)  When you load any vehicle up to its weight limit, or beyond its  
limit, the engine must work harder than when unloaded.  That's just  physics.  
When the engine works harder, especially an air cooled  engine, it runs hotter 
and it tends to knock more than if it was loaded  less.  That's just 
physics too.  Again, our air cooled engines are  more sensitive to this abuse and 
it is more so in FCs.  .... and yes, even  more so in UVs.  These issues 
should be talked about and care taken  for cars, FCs and UVs to different 
degrees.
 
3.)  You are correct that the 102 has poor low end torque and was a  bad 
choice for the FCs.  You are also correct that the high compression was  the 
issue that contributed to knock.  The combination of those two issues  and 
others is what gets you in the end.  This is the case with both  automatic and 
manual transmissions.  In an FC and especially in a fully  loaded FC, the 
lack of low end torque would cause the driver to "floor it" to  get it going. 
 This caused the "perfect storm" of conditions to cook the  engine.  High 
compression plus up to 3/4 ton of additional weight plus full  throttle plus 
low RPM quickly became a death sentence.  The extra weight  would cause the 
engine to lug itself much longer at lower RPM where the  knocking occurs.  
Because the 102HP engine was a time bomb in FCs and had  to be replaced both 
early on and in large numbers under warranty, they  removed them from the 
options list very quickly.  Low torque at low RPM may  have been a complaint 
but fried engines was the biggy.  I imagine that they  would refuse to 
replace the 102 with another 102.  Death by knocking was an  issue in cars with 
the 102 but not to the degree as in FCs.  Once it was  introduced, they did 
not remove 102s from the option list for cars until it was  replaced with the 
164 engines.  It wasn't as big a warranty issue as in the  FCs.
 
Boiling all this down .... I contend that our Corvair engines are more  
sensitive to overheating and knock than other engines.  I can't imagine you  
will disagree.  Further, adding load to that engine aggravates those  issues.  
Again, I doubt you will disagree.  Despite the fact that your  FC survived, 
do you think my cautionary note to people is somehow inappropriate  or 
inaccurate?  I feel comfortable that my advice may save some  people from 
destroying their engines.  If someone takes your implied  advice that they don't 
need to be careful when overloading their engine they are  more likely to fry 
an engine especially in an FC.  
 
Please forgive my terse tone but when I hear a "don't worry, be happy"  
message on valid issues of safety and/or reliability, I feel strongly.   This 
is why I reacted as strongly as I did a few weeks back when a member on  this 
list tried to say that space-saver wheels could be used on our Corvairs  
without due caution.  Your advice might merely lead to the loss of an  engine 
while his advice might lead to accidents and even death.
 
Doc
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
In a message dated 5/13/2015 9:05:25 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
corvanatics-request at corvair.org writes:

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 01:36:48 +0000
From: Joel  McGregor <joel at joelsplace.com>
To: "corvanatics at corvair.org"  <corvanatics at corvair.org>
Subject: Re: [FC] Springs for "working"  Rampside
Message-ID:
<27D1EC0369826D478297DD86D9DE5E2C800EFDDE at 2012SBS.joelsplace.local>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Doc,

If the Corvair engine is  such a weak link how do you think all those 
UltraVans manage?
I don't know  firsthand but I've always been told that people didn't like 
the 102 in  automatics or FCs because it didn't have much bottom end.
I've personally  run a stock Corvair engine at full throttle for 30 minutes 
at a time often in  100 degree plus temperatures.  Did it every Saturday on 
the way to work  for a couple of years with no problems.
Yes, detonation, pre-ignition,  knock or whatever will quickly destroy most 
engines and the 102 and it's  higher compression is more prone to it.
 
Hank,

Be sure to de-flash the heads. It will make it run  considerably cooler and 
leave the bottom shrouds off unless the weather is  cold.

Of course we are answering questions you didn't ask but here's  one that is 
related - wider 15" wheels and appropriate tires help the FCs a  bunch with 
handling loaded or not.

Joel  McGregor