<VV> Spanish Greenbrier scam?

Thu Jan 9 15:07:33 EST 2020

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I have the misfortune to live 
in the EU when I'm not in Florida. Not for much longer, if the 
politicians are to be believed (and I do NOT believe them, but that's 
another story). We (the UK are due to leave the EU at the end of this 
month.
I also have an 8 door Corvan here in the UK, and I haven't seen a VIN 
plate on that either. But neither have I seen the VIN stamped on the 
body. But I think your explanation is spot on. I wonder what the EU 
would make of early Covettes (which, being all fibreglass, have the VIN 
plate attached to the steering column)?
But none of this alters the unfortunate fact that I have been scammed. 
I paid the money by bank transfer; the seller promised to deliver it 
earlier this week and has not done so, and now he is not replying to my 
messages.
He is, however, still replying to the messages I am sending him from my 
US ebay identity, where he thinks I am a potential buyer for the same 
vehicle.
I went into this with my eyes open, but there are a number of factors 
which militate against it being a scam. The most obvious being why would 
you attempt a scam with such an unusual, and low-priced, vehicle (about 
$7,000)? I have his bank details, I have an address for him, I have a 
picture of him holding the title documents etc, I offered to come & 
drive the Greenbrier back to the UK & he instantly agreed; he didn't 
want cash, only bank transfer. On the other side of the scales, he has 
taken my money and then gone to ground, but not before re-listing it and 
selling it to me again under a different guise. If this IS a scam, it is 
a very strange one!

On 2020-01-09 19:44, Jim Becker wrote:
> Obviously, I don't know when or how that vehicle was imported to
> Spain, nor whether it was done as a new or used vehicle.  Therefore I
> have no idea what regulations may have been applicable.  However, EU
> rules on VINs includes:
> "The VIN shall be marked by stamping or mechanical hammering on the
> chassis, frame or other similar structure."
> Clearly the original VIN on an attached tag does not meet that
> requirement. It is POSSIBLE (not known to me!!!!!) that the serial
> number was stamped into the body as part of the import process.
>
> Those of us in the US that have never been involved with vehicle
> import/export don't have a lot of background on answering why a
> vehicle that might be in Spain has the VIN stamped into it.  A
> resident of the EU should have a better chance of knowing or finding
> that information.
>
> As far as the "5" vs. "S", it was probably a clerical error by the
> government employee or licensed/bonded contractor that did the import
> paperwork and nobody noticed.  It would be akin to you dropping the
> digit "2" out of the posted VIN.  If the official documents all match
> what is stamped into the vehicle, it is probably best to let sleeping
> dogs lie.
>
> Jim Becker
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Hugo Miller via VirtualVairs
> Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2020 10:39 AM
> To: Bryan Blackwell
> Cc: virtualvairs at corvair.org
> Subject: Re:  Spanish Greenbrier scam?
>
> That is very interesting. Why do you say it is clealy not a factory
> stamping? The title documents all show a 5 not an S also. Surely it's
> easier to switch the VIN plate than to stamp a fresh number by hand?
> There is, I believe, a hidden VIN stamping under the chassis. But 
> before
> I can check that, I need to find the van!
> But there is more to this story. I bought this van on eBay and it was
> spposed to be delivered earlier this week. The seller has now gone to
> ground. But on Monday I discovered it was listed on ebay again, so I
> bought it a second time, using my US ebay identity (I'm in the UK 
> right
> now). I am currently stringing the seller along to try & get to the
> bottom of it all.
> He has posted detailed pics of the van, and of all the documents. He
> even posted pictures of himself. I have his address (purportedly) and 
> I
> have his bank details. These are very odd actions for a scammer. But 
> on
> the other hand, I don't have my van!
> I'm planning a trip to Spain next week.
>
>
> On 2020-01-09 13:51, Bryan Blackwell wrote:
>> FWIW, I had a similar VIN issue on the title for our wagon - the 
>> title
>> had a '2' for the 'W'. It took some work, but I got the DMV to fix 
>> it.
>> During that, I found that the state will do an inspection on a 
>> vehicle
>> to provide a clear title.
>>
>> I don't know anything about the particular history of this van, but
>> it could be the tag was removed somewhere along the line, then 
>> punched
>> in by an agency and whoever did it should have put on their glasses
>> first. That is clearly not a factory stamping, and for that matter
>> they all had tags anyway.
>>
>> Also bear in mind that Corvairs were cheap for quite some time, and
>> there are a lot of re-bodied ones floating around because getting a
>> new body was cheaper than getting a new title. I know today people 
>> get
>> up in arms over it, but that's the way it was then.
>>
>> --Bryan
>>
>>> On Jan 9, 2020, at 7:55 AM, Hugo Miller via VirtualVairs
>>> <virtualvairs at corvair.org [1]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have attache a pic of the VIN supposedly stamped on the bodywork
>>> of a Greenbrier listed in Spain. In case the attachment doesn't
>> come
>>> through, the VIN is 4R165100689. That is 1265 NOT 126S. It is a
>>> beautiful metallic green and fully restored. But there are some
>>> puzzling aspects, not least of which is the VIN stamped on the
>>> bodyworl rather than on a stainless steel plate, and the 5 instead
>>> of an S in the VIN.
>>
>>
>>
>> Links:
>> ------
>> [1] mailto:virtualvairs at corvair.org
>
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