<VV> Seats

Mon Aug 10 17:02:45 EDT 2020

Bill asked, "Has anybody performed crash safety tests on Corvair with Chrysler Sebring seats w/shoulder belts?"

Not that I am aware of. However, as the person who was the first to put Sebring seats into his Corvair (as far as I know -- and Mike Dobie was not far behind me), I thought I should re-share info from an article I wrote about this topic -- see the "Mounting the seats" section here: http://www.corvairkid.com/sebring.htm.

You'll note that I intentionally chose a fabricator who has seen the results of a lot of bad accidents and been asked, as a form of expert witness, to construct what would be considered to be safe alternatives. So, while my car has not been crashed or crash tested, I am reasonably confident that the work he did is sufficient. In the pictures one can see the fairly-long "rails" for the seats, which ensure they have contact with a fairly-large floor area -- helpful in preventing a "sardine can lid roll-up" in an accident.

As I said in the article, this is not trivial work. I would be VERY concerned about someone doing this type of fabrication who does not have considerable experience and a flawless welding technique.

--Kent

-----Original Message-----
From: VirtualVairs <virtualvairs-bounces at corvair.org> On Behalf Of William Hubbell via VirtualVairs
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 1:15 PM
To: jimster1 at earthlink.net
Cc: virtualvairs at corvair.org; Seth Emerson <sethracer at aol.com>
Subject: Re: <VV> Seats

I will repeat what I said earlier:

“ Shoulder harnesses help to restrain the upper body from lunging forward, but they aren’t just tacked onto some random part of the car, but rather part of a comprehensive, engineered, and tested system to ensure they perform the desired function.”

Has anybody performed crash safety tests on Corvair with Chrysler Sebring seats w/shoulder belts?  Frankly, I doubt it - In which case we have no data on how well they perform - whether the seats remain anchored, belts work as designed, etc.  

I have long maintained that in some ways, the addition of numerous safety features to automobiles have lulled drivers to becoming less engaged in the driving process, leading to increased risk-taking, becoming over confident in their safety devices protecting them from their behavior.

Whether this is true for modern cars or not, I will leave open to debate.  However, to expect modern safety devices to produce the same results in older cars that were not engineered for, and tested with such devices is certainly a foolish prospect - made even worse if it lulls the driver into an even greater false sense of security. 

Bill

On Aug 10, 2020, at 4:02 PM, jim bannister via VirtualVairs <virtualvairs at corvair.org> wrote:

Seats from a Chrysler Sebring will get you shoulder belts front and rear and lighten the car by about 80 pounds.
Jim, '66 turbovert

-----Original Message-----
From: VirtualVairs [mailto:virtualvairs-bounces at corvair.org] On Behalf Of Seth Emerson via VirtualVairs
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 9:39 AM
To: virtualvairs at corvair.org
Subject: Re: <VV> Seats

Bill has a point - But if you want to increase safety for operation, a shoulder harness, properly secured is likely the first thing on the list, providing you already have seat belts in place. The engineering was done for the later 66 models, so if you can duplicate that roof location and come close on the mounting capability, that is probably a good start. There are engineered solutions around designed to bolt/weld into our older cars. (You are not alone in your thoughts on safety with our older cars. ) 

Check out:  https://www.wescoperformance.com/3-pt-retractable-seatbelt-abvblw-hlp.html
Feel free to explore their site. -Seth

-----Original Message-----
From: William Hubbell via VirtualVairs <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
To: virtualvairs at corvair.org
Sent: Mon, Aug 10, 2020 4:24 am
Subject: Re: <VV> Seats

If your goal is to make a 50+ year car as safe as a modern car, you’re probably in the wrong hobby.

Sure, you could cobble up some sort of a latch for your seat backs, but to what purpose?  It’s not the seat back lurching forward that’s going to hurt you in a panic stop - it’s all the soft parts of your body going through sudden deceleration (think brain, inside skull) and the hard parts you will hit in front (think steering wheel and dash). 

Modern car safety is about a lot more than just locking the seat backs.  Shoulder harnesses help to restrain the upper body from lunging forward, but they aren’t just tacked onto some random part of the car, but rather part of a comprehensive, engineered, and tested system to ensure they perform the desired function.  Air bags are another part of that system, as are the specifically designed front end crumple zones.

If you are worried about the lack of modern safety features in your 1966 Corvair, maybe you shouldn’t be driving it.  Otherwise, you could realize that the most important safety feature in a car is the person driving it, and adjust your driving habits in your older cars to minimize the chances of ever needing additional safety equipment. 

Bill

On Aug 9, 2020, at 10:18 PM, Richard via VirtualVairs <virtualvairs at corvair.org> wrote:

After a non corvair friend re upholstered my 66 front bucket seat, he asked me what prevented the seat back from lunging forward during a sudden stop. I told him that with 4 drums and no power boost, there were no sudden stops. Now I'm thinking....is there a way to install some type of lock mechanism on the seat backs? Richard Simoff

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