<VV> vehicle values, Corvair or otherwise

[Hugo Miller]

That is very interesting. Perhaps the answer is to stand at the front & 
face backwards so you can see what is going on (if anything) or get a 
dash-cam on the back of your head! I have heard of 'chandelier bidding' 
but this takes it to a whole new level!
You could ALMOST argue that by declaring the car 'sold', the auction 
house had entered a verbal contract with you. Don't know whether it 
would stand up in court, but if they tried that with me I would most 
definitely sue them for the sale price just to expose their dubious 
practices in a public forum.
Is NOBODY honest any more?


On 2019-01-16 12:46, Steven J. Serenska via VirtualVairs wrote:
> VVers:
>
> I shared the results of the Mecum auction with a few friends who are
> car guys, although not Corvair guys.  One of them is a former judge
> from Texas who is now a professor at a law school here in my town in
> Rhode Island.  I thought his response was pretty well written and
> educational:
>
>
> [In the judge's words:]
>
> Having been to Barret Jackson many times, I can say that many of the
> cars do sell for incredibly high prices; sometimes, it's the result 
> of
> a buyer and seller "negotiating" an auction environment.  At other
> times, with booze and big egos the prices rise. I would never call 
> the
> "auction price" a FMV. The prices are manufactured by the environment
> and the auction house's manipulations. One could argue, however, 
> those
> are still FMV because someone bought and someone sold.
>
> One example that I was personally involved in had to do with my 1929
> Stutz LeBaron Speedster. I sat in front of the auction stand. The 
> tent
> was packed. It was morning, but I know the booze was flowing. My
> "reserve" price was $165,000. Out of that, I'd pay the auction house
> 8% and net the rest sans the expenses of having taken the car to
> Scottsdale from San Antonio. It was supposed to be a good
> "environment" for the classics.
>
> The car sat on a turntable, with lights beaming off the
> concours-winning black paint with red pinstripe. The massive polished
> alumninum wheels shined like the sun.
>
> The bidding was fast and furious. "I have 130...and now 135 over
> there....now 142...now 145...there's a new bidder with 150.......the
> auctioneer was pointing left, then right, right again, then left.
> Other auction staff, in the tent, would yell, "yes" and the auction
> price would increase by 5,000.
>
> The price stalled at around 150,000. A staffer came over to me and
> asked what I wanted to do. I said, "well, close out the auction and
> say the reserve was not met." He said, "do you want us to run it up 
> to
> your reserve?" That, of course, would leave the unwitting audience
> thinking someone had bid the reserve and I chose not to sell at that
> price. (Remember, no one, but the auctioneer and seller know the
> reserve price).
>
> As the staffer, with whom I had just spoken, approached the head
> auctioneer on the microphone, someone in the audience yelled "155."
> OMG, I thought, the bidding was starting again. The auctioneer was
> reenergized and began calling out bids from left and right in nearly
> staccato fashion. It quickly ran past my reserve and the car was
> declared sold.
>
> After the auction session, I was in the auction office and was told
> that there were no bids, at all.....except one lonely bidder who
> started at 155 with that yell-out. He was the only bidder in the
> entire tent. And, all the auctioneer call-outs were shills.
>
> Can we, then, call the selling price FMV? Arguably, yes. But, would
> you, as a buyer, want to use that as criteria to determine the value
> of a car you're buying? Arguably, no.
>
> [end of judge's words]
>
>
> Steven J. Serenska
> Bristol, RI
>
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