<VV> Fuel Leak

Fri Sep 28 06:27:42 EDT 2018

Yes.  The square end is the lug nut for the inner wheel.  The outer wheel nut screws on to the inner lug nut.
I'll bet the right rears come loose also but they don't fly off because the nuts don't unscrew themselves completely from being loose.
Once the left gets loose the nuts spin off and there goes the wheel.
I forgot to mention that I believe the hub center lug nuts have the torque stamped into the nut here.

Joel McGregor

-------- Original message --------
From: Hugo Miller <Hugo at aruncoaches.co.uk>
Date: 9/28/18 5:16 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: Joel McGregor <joel at joelsplace.com>
Subject: Re: <VV> Fuel Leak

Budd wheels are the ones with the square end on the stud, aren't they? That
system doesn't exist in the UK - we always used to have both wheels located
by one set of lug nuts. The nuts were conical, and they had conical collars
on the inside of the inner wheel, plus of course left-hand threads on the
left of the vehicle. That system worked perfectly well, and there was no
such thing as 'wheel-loss syndrome' in those days.
Incidentally, I have a 1980 Kenworth Cabover that has larger diameter studs
& nuts, but the nuts are shallower. It's for sale if anybody's interested.
Detroit V8 2-stroke / 13 spd.
You are probably the first person I have had agree with me about lubricating
the threads. Everybody here seems to think it will make them fall off, but I
have ben doing this for a very long time & I never even need to check the
lug nuts. I also have 'ric-clips' fitted. These are like a figure-of-eight
spring clip that goes over two adjacent nuts, and makes them stiff enough to
turn that they are never going to fall off. The US equivalent is 'Zafety
lugs' or whatever they're called - a neat little plastic clip that does the
same job.
One area where I am going to disagree with you is where you say that the
problem isn't down to thread rotation. The ONLY wheels that ever fall off
since we switched to right-hand threads are the left-hand rears. Right-hand
rear wheels stay put, as do the fronts as they have less work to do.
Salt is a major problem on UK roads, especially if, like me, you have one
steel wheel and one Alcoa wheel on the back! That is why I religiously scurf
all mating surfaces then lubricate them, preferably with something like
cavity wax to keep the corrosion at bay.

-----Original Message-----
From: Joel McGregor via VirtualVairs
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2018 9:31 AM
To: virtualvairs at corvair.org
Subject: Re:  Fuel Leak

Since I recently bought a large truck I've done a lot of reading on this.
Hugo is mostly right except wheel loss is an issue in the US also since
trucks switched to all RH threads.   BUT the thread switch wasn't the
problem.  The system with RH and LH threads on large trucks with dual wheels
is commonly called Budd or lug center.  They have tapered seats that center
the wheel and the hub center system has all RH threads BUT this still isn't
the issue.  The problem was created because the old Budd system clamped each
wheel sepearately and the new system clamps both wheels at the same time.
As Hugo mentioned this creates a whole stack of surfaces clamped together in
the new system.  Hub to drum, drum to inner wheel, inner wheel to outer
wheel and outer wheel to lug nut washer.  (No tapered seats on hub center
systems)  Any paint, dirt, rust or whatever will cause so much change in
thickness when it settles it exceeds the amount of stretch the stud has to
clamp with.  I have read that
  here it is drilled into any truck driver that wheels must be re-torqued
within something like 100 miles after any service.  I saw a wheel change
reciept recently and it had a warning hand written on it to re-torque the
wheel within 100 miles.
Oiling threads is a good thing and will give a more accurate stretch.
Torque has to be adjusted for oiled threads.  Rod bolts are always supposed
to be oiled and they get some crazy stresses without coming loose.
Whatever force that loosens the nuts on one side only matters in making them
fall off after they are already loose.  It isn't enough to make any
difference on a tight nut.
I use anti-seize on my truck but it has the old Budd system.  It's a 1997
model.
BTW he didn't say to only tighten the greased fittings finger tight.

Joel McGregor

-------- Original message --------
From: roboman91324--- via VirtualVairs <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
Date: 9/27/18 10:21 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: Hugo at aruncoaches.co.uk, virtualvairs at corvair.org
Subject: Re: <VV> Fuel Leak

Hugo,

Please excuse my last post.  Mechanical precession is exactly what is going
on with left-side lug nut loosening.  I assumed you were talking about
precession as it pertains to the dynamics of rotating mass.  I. E.
gyroscopic precession.  I have always known it as epicyclic fretting.

By the way, mechanical precession is still a concern but the deeper tapered
lug nuts added just enough friction to compensate.  In addition, the taper
(acorn) itself, not just the added contact area, has been the solution to
the issue in two ways.  First, the taper acts as a wedge which increases the
applied force "N" in the frictional force equation.  Second, the taper
allows for different diameters at different points of contact.  These
interesting tricks of Physics were a game changer.

Again, my apologies,

Doc

PS:  I believe the rest of my posts to be accurate but you never know.
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