<VV> I know, I know...

Tue Nov 10 13:29:34 EST 2015

Well said and very informative Doc. It is that typical "misconception". All late model Corvairs are Yenko Stingers. All early models are Spyders. "This will be EASY MONEY (since I'm so smart)". rnojunk just needs to find someone that is very very rich and is very very dumb. Patience is the key. But buying  a car without inspecting it first is a big no no in my book. Been there done it. Never again.
Timothy Shortle in Durango Colorado 81301 
my education is still on going

-----Original Message-----
>From: RoboMan91324--- via VirtualVairs <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
>Sent: Nov 9, 2015 1:08 PM
>To: virtualvairs at corvair.org, rnojunkmail at aol.com
>Subject: <VV> I know, I know...
>
>rnojunk,
> 
>First, I like the positive attitude that this was a learning  experience.  
>If your intent was to learn how to restore a vehicle, you  probably chose 
>the right car.  The downside was minimal so you could afford  to learn from 
>mistakes.
> 
>Second, congratulations on being able to do so much of the  work yourself.
> 
>Third, as they say, "There's your problem."
> 
>Unknowingly, you bought a "junker" and had to invest lots of  money along 
>with your labor.  I am assuming that you consider your  labor as "free" in 
>this case.  Unless you find a more rare car and  bring it up to snuff, you 
>probably will not turn a profit.  You  didn't.
> 
>I don't know what is in your head ... what you know, so you  should 
>consider the following as generic advice for the general reader of this  message.  
>I often write this way.
> 
>If you are trying to turn over cars for a profit you need to  look at it as 
>an investment business with an emphasis on the word  "business.".  You need 
>to have knowledge of the "product and market"   Do your research.  Your 
>briefly stated strategy with the VW bus is a good  example of investment 
>thinking.  I don't know how deeply you got into it  but you at least considered 
>your potential market/demand for your restored  vehicle.  However, within the 
>market for VW buses, there is a very wide  range of customers and values.  
>This value is other than the obvious  initial condition.  An old hippie 
>trying to recreate some memories may be  willing to pay a certain amount but how 
>much?  A collector of VWs may be  willing to pay lots more especially if the 
>bus is rare.  But how rare is  it?  As an example, a "barn door" bus is 
>VERY much more valuable than many  other models.
> 
>The word "restored" is very subjective.  The old hippie  may get tears in 
>his eyes when he sees a bus with bright shiny paint and good  upholstery but 
>the collector may think, "Holy crap, I wish he hadn't "restored"  it.  The 
>paint is good but they never offered that color back then .... the  floor 
>board welding is good but I will still need to cut it out and redo it ....  the 
>window felts look good but are generic repros, new after market side 
>mirrors  but absolutely wrong and look, mounting holes that are all wrong  ....  
>etc."  Sometimes the diamond in the rough is more valuable than the  polished 
>diamond.  If you can find a barn door bus where the owner doesn't  know the 
>value, you might do better to just resell it as-is to a collector who  
>knows the value and will put a $30,000 restoration into it.  Again,  knowledge 
>and research have value.
> 
>Within the context of Corvairs, I know I may offend some  people but 
>certain years and models have more intrinsic value than others.   Lakewoods are 
>more valuable than many other EMs.  Spyders have more value  than other EMs 
>and especially the 64 Spyder, the only true Spyder.  A  Rampside is more 
>valuable than a Loadside even though the Loadside is more  rare.  Documented 
>Yenkos and Stingers have great value.  Within the  LMs, Corsas and especially 
>convertibles have more value than other models.   Within Corsas, the 1966 has 
>lower production numbers and especially low  production numbers if it is a 
>Canadian Corsa and most especially if it is a  turbo car.  (146 coupes and 65 
>ragtops manufactured in 1966.  Yes, I  own one.)
> 
>As stated, your choice of Corvair may have been good as a  learning 
>platform but maybe not so good as a fixer-upper investment.  Many  professionals 
>specialize in one or a few makes/models just so they can become  expert.  To 
>walk into a barn and say to yourself, "The ad said 1963  Corvette coupe but 
>this is a Grand Sport and they are only asking $50,000." is a  collector's 
>dream.  By the way, I lucked out on my Corsa.  Neither I  nor the seller knew 
>it was Canadian nor did we know it was originally a turbo  car.  It had a 
>140 in it.  It is easy to check for both but you need  to know how to check 
>for it and that you need to check for it.  It was my  first Corvair and I was 
>ignorant.  This kind of luck rarely happens but  knowledge improves the odds.
> 
>Regarding your eBay experience, it is a cautionary tale for  everyone 
>reading this.  I "sort of" bought a Corsa on eBay  sight-unseen.  There were lots 
>of pics but the  seller was a true artist with the camera as well as a real 
>poet with his  description.  Long story short .... the car was not as 
>described or  pictured.  Fortunately, I contacted him beforehand and we agreed 
>that if I  won the auction, I would pay him in person after inspecting the 
>car.  I  have posted a description of this experience on vv before.  It is very 
> entertaining but I won't take the space here.  The bottom line is if you  
>can't get to the vehicle to inspect it before the auction ends or get 
>someone  trustworthy to inspect it, don't take the risk.  .... or cover your butt 
>as  I did.
> 
>Good luck with the bus.  Are you keeping the Monza?   Is it Canadian?  :-)
> 
>Doc
>60 Corvette, 62 Rampside, 63 Rampside, 64 Spyder coupe, 65  Greenbrier, 66 
>Canadian Corsa turbo coupe, 67 Nova SS, 68 Camaro ragtop   (... and a 
>partridge in a pear tree .... Christmas is coming.)
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
>In a message dated 11/8/2015 7:43:12 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
>virtualvairs-request at corvair.org writes:
>
>Message:  2
>Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2015 12:55:53 -0500
>From: rnojunkmail  <rnojunkmail at aol.com>
>To: virtualvairs at corvair.org
>Subject:  <VV> I know, I know...
>Message-ID:  <sgulh6tmef75vguhex5tlumk.1446918953656 at email.android.com>
>Content-Type:  text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>I was aware of the value of an old Corvair  that was restored, but to only 
>get 50 cents on the dollar back is  disappointing. I bought the 65 Mona for 
>$1000. on ebay.I'll never buy one  sight unseen again. When I got it I 
>pulled up the rug to find a Fred  Flintstone mobile on all fours. Needed new gas 
>tank, master cylinder, 4 wheel  cylinders, New rug, New windshield, removal 
>of dents, New chrome,, and New  paint, all of which I did myself. I made 
>mistakes in the beginning, but I  consider my losses on the car as tuition for 
>welding, paint, and body work  school. Now I can actually make a small 
>profit on my next project...VOLKSWAGEN  BUS! PLENTY OF 70 year old hippies would 
>pay top dollar for this  thing.
>
>
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