<VV> Which OIL? Re: Doc opinion

Tue May 19 23:48:31 EDT 2015

It seems that people are making decisions here on what oil to use without
looking at the technical reasons why certain oils are better than others
and are therefore better or worse for certain uses, too. It is true that
some factory engines come filled with full synthetic. I would bet each of
those engines are broke in on the engine assembly line before installation
into the car, and the breakin oil is drained. With the advent of new
cylinder and ring materials, a fast initial breakin is possible under those
controlled conditions. You do not have those conditions!

Keep in mind you want oil with poorer lubrication properties for breakin of
the rings and cylinder walls so they rub together and knock off the high
points creating a seal. The needs for breakin are at the opposite end of
the scale than for everyday driving where the oil is supposed to protect
the parts.

I have already explained how breakin can be done without overheating or
stressing the engine. I have used this procedure many  times on aviation
air cooled engines and on Corvair engines without a single failure.

Also, your engine will be under more stress than most due to being air
cooled and in a ultravan with higher loads, plus it has larger displacement
and a potential for more power with a limited existing cooling system.

Breakin: Use a good quality high ZDDP breakin DINO oil. I used the
Valvoline VR1 205 10w30. Brad Penn has one, Royal Purple has one.  Do the
starts and runs like I described earlier to do a basic breakin with the
engine cool. Then drive on level ground up to 100 miles or so after that,
doing some moderate accelerations. Drain the oil and change the filter.

Driving after breakin: Go to your full synthetic oil. While it is known
that a lighter weight oil that flows faster through the engine cools
better, the oil must also have a high enough viscosity to maintain the
lubrication properties in higher temperatures without breakdown. In saying
that, I think Richard 1's oil article recommends a 15 w40 oil for hotter
and higher stress applications. So get the best 15w40 full synthetic diesel
oil you can buy in accordance with Richard 1's recommendations.

Make sure you have the lower shrouds off. Install the coolest range of
spark plugs you can get. Make sure you are using the correct jets in your
carburetors. I was having some overheating problems with my 64-110 with
high compression heads, and ended up with 56 jets. Some think this is too
rich, but my car gets 22.5 MPG around town and got 27.6 and won my class in
the recent 42nd Northwest Econorun, with 56 jets, but it now runs in the
proper temp range!  So, if your spark plugs were running really clean, I
would go at least 2 carb jet sizes larger and see what it does just simply
from the fact that you have 3.1L pistons and cylinders you need to feed.

Monitor your oil and cht temps in mild driving conditions. Adjust timing
and carb jets as needed to get the engine where it needs to be. Add more
stress and watch those temps closely.   I was told by several Corvair
Engine guru's that Corvair engines are very sensitive to fuel and timing.
In my case they were right. Make sure you have that right before you take
any stressful trips with that engine.

More than 2 cents but my experience.

Mark Durham
Hauser, Idaho
62 Monza coupe Red/Red 4 speed

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 4:54 PM, Bob via VirtualVairs <
virtualvairs at corvair.org> wrote:

> Hi.
>
> Now this is both interesting and timely. I am one of those under the
> impression that you needed conventional oil for the first few hundred miles.
>
> Are we now saying that I can put synthetic in a freshly built engine like
> the 3.1 I am putting together for my UltraVan?
>
> If so, what weight?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
>
> From: efki at verizon.net [mailto:efki at verizon.net]
> Sent: May 19, 2015 2:38 PM
> To: james.f.burkhard at delphi.com; frankcb at aol.com; bgilbert at gilberts-bc.ca;
> corvairjack at yahoo.com; virtualvairs at corvair.org
> Subject: Re: Re: <VV> Which OIL? Re: Doc opinion
>
>
>
> Only question I would have about that Jim is:
>
>
>
> How much difference would the clearance tolerance make?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Eric
>
>
>
>
>
> On 05/18/15, Burkhard, James F via VirtualVairs<virtualvairs at corvair.org
> <mailto:virtualvairs at corvair.org> > wrote:
>
>
>
> Many high end cars come from the factory with synthetic oil these days. I
> think the old shade tree mechanic adage of not using synthetic oil on a new
> build went out long long ago.
>
> In a highly loaded application like a mountain-climbing UltraVan, I would
> try to stack the deck in my favor as much as possible: oil cooler, oil
> temperature sensor, and certainly synthetic oil.
>
> Good luck & Keep us posted...
>
> Jim Burkhard
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: frankcb at aol.com <mailto:frankcb at aol.com>  [mailto:frankcb at aol.com]
> Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2015 1:17 PM
> To: bgilbert at gilberts-bc.ca <mailto:bgilbert at gilberts-bc.ca> ;
> corvairjack at yahoo.com <mailto:corvairjack at yahoo.com> ;
> virtualvairs at corvair.org <mailto:virtualvairs at corvair.org>
> Subject: Re: Which OIL? Re: Doc opinion
>
> Bob et al.
> Reminds me of the time many years ago when I came out of the store I was
> shopping at, hopped into "Joe Cool" (1966 Corvair with A/C) and started the
> engine. It ran fine but the red light on the dash told me I wasn't getting
> any battery charging so I shut down and prepared to replace the fan belt
> with the spare I carried. Surprisingly I found that the fan belt was
> perfectly attached to all the pulleys so I restarted the engine. Now the
> fanbelt was STATIONARY as was the fan itself and the alternator pulley!
> Closely examining the driving pulley I was amazed to see the INNER section
> was turning just fine, but the OUTER section was completely stopped. The
> rubber anti-vibration layer between the inner and outer had completely
> failed!! How to get the car home so I could repair it??? Fortunately, the
> trip was only 7 miles and I had installed a head temp. gauge so I simply
> drove about 1-1/2 miles until the gauge went up to 400 deg.F. then stopped
> and let the engine cool d
> own and repeated the short trip interval about 4 times. What saved me was
> a BIG battery AND the synthetic engine oil I had in the car. After arriving
> home, I dropped the back end of the engine a few inches and changed the
> vibration damper pulley out for a good one and the car ran just fine for
> many more years.
> "Joe Cool" (named by my little boy after the Snoopy character) had his
> cooling system adjusted so he blew 38 deg.F. air temp out of the cooling
> duct (as measured by a digital thermometer). It was so cold when I put my
> fingers by the duct outlet for a few seconds they would HURT from the low
> temp. Try doing that with a "modern" car!!
> Thanks for the memories!
> Frank Burkhard
> Boonton, NJ
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob <bgilbert at gilberts-bc.ca <mailto:bgilbert at gilberts-bc.ca> >
> To: frankcb <frankcb at aol.com <mailto:frankcb at aol.com> >; corvairjack <
> corvairjack at yahoo.com <mailto:corvairjack at yahoo.com> >; virtualvairs <
> virtualvairs at corvair.org <mailto:virtualvairs at corvair.org> >
> Sent: Sun, May 17, 2015 12:07 pm
> Subject: RE: Which OIL? Re: Doc opinion
>
>
> Hi Frank,
> I only had about 500 miles on the motor at the time and I was still using
> dyno oil. I was planning to switch to synthetic after that very trip!
>
> Regards,
> Bob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: frankcb at aol.com <mailto:frankcb at aol.com>
> [mailto:frankcb at aol.com]
> Sent: May 16, 2015 5:46 PM
> To:
> bgilbert at gilberts-bc.ca <mailto:bgilbert at gilberts-bc.ca> ;
> corvairjack at yahoo.com <mailto:corvairjack at yahoo.com> ;
> virtualvairs at corvair.org <mailto:virtualvairs at corvair.org>
> Subject: Which OIL? Re: Doc opinion
>
> Bob, were
> you using a SYNTHETIC engine oil at the time the damage occurred? Usually
> they're good up to 450 deg.F. which is quite a bit higher than conventional
> oils.
> Frank Burkhard
> Boonton, NJ
>
> -----Original
> Message-----
> From: Bob via VirtualVairs <virtualvairs at corvair.org <mailto:
> virtualvairs at corvair.org> >
> To:
> 'JackPinard' <corvairjack at yahoo.com <mailto:corvairjack at yahoo.com> >;
> virtualvairs <virtualvairs at corvair.org <mailto:virtualvairs at corvair.org> >
> Sent: Sat, May 16, 2015 8:34 pm
> Subject: Re: <VV>
> Doc opinion
>
>
> Hi,
> And on a somewhat related note, I seriously damaged a freshly built 3.1 in
> my UltraVan about 18 months ago. I did all the required deflashing, etc.
> but
> made a huge mistake in not installing additional cooling power in the form
> of an external oil cooler. No problem for short trips around home but on
> the first long trip, up a multi-mile very steep hill in the Rockies with a
> full load of vacation supplies I cooked the oil and damaged all 6 pistons
> and cylinders beyond repair. An expensive lesson and with 20:20 hindsight
> totally preventable.
> So cooling is VERY important when you stress Corvair engines beyond their
> normal "in-car" mode.
> Regards,
> Bob
> PS I am
> rebuilding
> it as we speak and adding a fan driven external oil cooler!
>
>
>
>
>
>
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