<VV> Display cars at Knoxville
Sethracer at aol.com
Sethracer at aol.com
Tue Jun 30 20:23:04 EDT 2015
Bill wrote:
"Let me set the record straight and end this discussion. I am the one
upset about this. I am the one making a fuss about it."
So I write:
The person who lights the fire is not necessarily the one who gets to put
it out.
"Corsa" has proven, in the past, to be perfectly capable of displaying
special cars for Convention goers. In Detroit, they had a 1960 and a 1969 on
display at the end of the lobby, just outside the vendor area. In Sturbridge,
a couple of race cars were displayed in the center of the vendor area.
Last year, in Tacoma, Herb Berkman's (ex-car) was on display in the lobby of
the hotel. These are just three examples at three conventions. This pretty
coupe could have been displayed in the lobby of the hotel all week, or while
the owner permitted it. That would have been a public display area for all
to see. The Concours is a "Convention venue" and not technically open to
the public. That the car was subjected to classification at all is a
mystery. There was no reason to have the car in the competitive arena of the
Concours. The Stock Corvair group could have done their honest evaluation for
the owner during the hotel display. Was the reason that only with a Concours
entry could a "Classification" be performed?. It seems that the owner had
no interest in that. As the owner/maintainer of this essentially new car, he
knew of the stockness of the car, but he had no idea that Corsa had a
rule-set developed over many years and iterations. That rule set was designed,
and modified to provide guidelines for folks "wanting" to compete for
cleanliness and preparation levels. It is a service that Corsa provides to
interested owners who want to display as "correct" a car as they want to
display. With the classification completed, the owner can than decide whether to
go back and shoot for some other level or not. The Corsa Concours committee
(like all volunteer committees) has, in the past, been criticized for not
being even-handed, allowing an exception here, or making a scoring mistake
there. This decision was right by the rules. But it should not have had to
be made at all.
I have attended every Corsa Convention since 1980. I have entered a car in
the Concours competition whenever I brought one. I had a car promoted into
senior division, then repeat 3 years later. But I have also brought race
cars and entered them in Concours as well, with no expectation of earning
anything. But I do gain an evaluation of condition!
So now what? First, criticism of either the classification procedure or
the decision to not grant a waiver is useless. It wasn't and isn't a policy
of Corsa to ignore or belittle this car. It was what it was. Classification
is a service of Corsa, and need not be experienced, unless desired. Other
than the split between regular and Senior class, the "classification" serves
to provide the layout of the cars on the field. That could easily be done
in the same way as the car display cars are arranged. Each car is
individually judged against that "mythical" 100 point car, not against other cars on
the field. "Stockish" car owners wanting to compete for a preservation
award could so indicate on their car. If the judges deem them worthy, great.
Changes? - well, display cars should be invited and treated as display
cars. It might require some more coordination between the host
chapter/organizers and whoever is working with the hotel and venue. Anybody who enters any
of the events should know what is expected of them, and what to expect.
- Seth Emerson
In a message dated 6/24/2015 6:18:22 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
virtualvairs at corvair.org writes:
Let me set the record straight and end this discussion. I am the one
upset about this. I am the one making a fuss about it.
The owner was asked by convention organizers to bring the car here (from
Arizona), to show it at Concours, having been highly profiled in both
national and CORSA publications. He did not seek to come here or to designate
the car as anything in particular. He did not buy this car to bring it here
and win an award.
The provenance of this car is a matter of public record and is
indisputable. The fact that it is essentially a 52 year old "new" car is not in doubt.
The condition of the car is amazing. It offers a rare chance to look
back 52 years in time to see how a car came from the factory - imperfections
and all. The knowledge it can contribute to those few of us who have an
interest in originality is a rare gift.
Frankly, the owner is not nearly so upset about this as I am. Once again
CORSA has demonstrated their failure to have a venue to recognize
preservation of originality.
The fact is, the only official recognition given by CORSA to original
vehicles is the presentation of a Preservation Award, given to the vehicle(s)
with the high score in either (or both) Stock classes (original or
restored). However, a car has no chance of competing for such award unless it can
successfully run the gauntlet of classification, with all its arcane rules.
Last time I checked, Corvairs were not delivered from the factory with
Coker tires, aftermarket splatter paint (which looks nothing like the
original), reproduction weatherstripping that doesn't seal or fit right, or
reproduction batteries that are not "tar top"; yet all of these "modifications"
are permitted under current CORSA stock classification rules. Factory Stock
Restored vehicles can even be completely stripped and repainted.
The fact that a car "fresh" from the showroom floor, but 52 years late
being delivered, might need new tires, (or filters, battery, or even shocks,
brakes, etc), is not surprising and should not reduce its value as an
otherwise original car. It should be possible to see past those imperfections to
note the value of the rest of the car.
Here is a car where you can see original paint, original upholstery,
original hardware, original overspray, original exhaust system, original tire
(yes, the spare) - all in pristine, UNRESTORED condition.
To fail to recognize this car as something special - that is the point.
It defines our club as one that doesn't care about such things.
Instead, we will recognize those who over-restore, over-polish, and
replace old, original parts that could have been preserved with new, imperfect
reproductions and we will call them "winners".
We will celebrate the cars that drive the fastest, get the best mileage,
navigate tricky courses, have the hardest luck.
We won't, however, recognize and celebrate our heritage - not even when it
is staring us in the face.
Bill Hubbell
President, Stock Corvair Group, and one of a few remaining CORSA members
who "give a damn" about preserving and recognizing originality.
On Jun 24, 2015, at 7:20 AM, Bruce Schug via Chapters
<chapters at corvair.org> wrote:
Would someone report exactly what tires did this car have? I know the
rules in some classes are incorrect, requiring 175/80s when 185/80s should be
required, but if the owner wanted to present the car as original, he clearly
should have read the rules over and over and contacted the Concours Chair
about any questions. The solution for him would seem to have been a set of
Coker's reproduced bias ply 6.50-13s.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 23, 2015, at 10:50 PM, David Clamp via VirtualVairs
<virtualvairs at corvair.org> wrote:
>
> I saw the progress this car made from filthy to factory perfect on the
web. Truly amazing to have a factory brand new 52 year old car. To deny
this car its proper place is utterly ridiculous. I have usually defended
CORSA in the past and encouraged people to join, but it is things like this
that drive people away. CORSA wonders why membership is shrinking. Stupid
stuff like this is part of the problem. Sticking to the letter of the law?
It's a car event, not a religion.
>
> David
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Jun 23, 2015, at 10:26 PM, Ned Madsen via Chapters
<chapters at corvair.org> wrote:
>>
>> Couldn't agree more... CORSA is insane!!
>>
>>
>> But that's nothing new.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bill Hubbell via Chapters <chapters at corvair.org>
>> To: Virtual Vairs <virtualvairs at corvair.org>; CORSA/CPF BoD
<corsabod at corvair.org>; Corsa Chapters <chapters at corvair.org>
>> Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2015 4:31 pm
>> Subject: <CORSA Chapters> CORSA blunder
>>
>>
>> I've never been more embarrassed by this club that by what just
happened today.
>> The '63 White Monza Lambrecht car was classified into the Modified
class for
>> Concours - technically correct due to the incorrect size of his
whitewall radial
>> tires, but grossly incorrect for what is probably the last most perfect
factory
>> original car we will ever see again. Mark Corbin and I made a personal
appeal
>> to the Concours chair to - just this one time - override the rule book
and give
>> this car the recognition it deserves, but he stood on the letter of the
law and
>> refused to reconsider.
>>
>> Well, he does have the original Firestone 6.50-13
>> tire in the spare location, complete with the two felt pads protecting
the metal
>> underneath, the molding plugs unmolested. All the rubber moldings,
bumpers, etc
>> are in pristine, soft condition, the metal trim shiny bright, even has
the drips
>> and droops of glue and goop where the factory left them.
>>
>> You will never see
>> a car in more original and new condition as this one. To call it
modified
>> because he didn't drive it here on 52 year old bias belt tires is
insane.
>>
>>
>> CORSA is insane.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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