<VV> It must be national concours time -

Wed Jun 24 07:06:23 EDT 2015

Oh, best not to get me started on how many times they have broken their own rules, made scoring (addition) errors, etc. 

I guess the fact that they have done it both intentionally and unintentionally so many times before makes this argument about "following the rules" that much less believable.

Bill

On Jun 24, 2015, at 1:19 AM, S M <shaun_mcgarvey at shaw.ca> wrote:

I have much, much more of an issue with the top award at the convention, the Bill Mitchell award, be presented to the wrong recipient, having the mistake brought up, accepted to be a mistake, then not corrected! Something about unringing a bell... and the rightful recipient isn't acknowledged in the club annals. By the way, I've seen this happen TWICE now!!!
yea, Vairily ... Shaun

From: "Bill Hubbell via VirtualVairs" <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
To: "Ron Hinz" <ronh at owt.com>
Cc: "Corvair Underground" <sales at corvairunderground.com>, "<virtualvairs at corvair.org>" <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 9:10:10 PM
Subject: Re: <VV> It must be national concours time -

And since the Lambrecht car is the closest we can expect to come to that ideal, if it can't make it, none of them can. 

Bill

On Jun 24, 2015, at 10:01 PM, Ron Hinz <ronh at owt.com> wrote:

Certainly there's no such thing as a truly factory stock Corvair and the category as defined should be eliminated as there are none, there couldn't be.  As we all know, tires as the factory purchased them haven't been available for many years.  The same goes for the blower belt, battery, windshield wiper blades and headlights, to name a few.  We could also include all lubricants as they shouldn't be the factory supplied or identical by specification.
So, there's no such thing as a factory stock car unless someone has one that's been wrapped and frozen since the purchase date.

Ron Hinz

-----Original Message----- From: Bill Hubbell via VirtualVairs
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 6:46 PM
To: Bruce Schug
Cc: Corvair Underground ; virtualvairs at corvair.org
Subject: Re:  It must be national concours time -

He replaced the 4 tires the car sits on, (although he saved the original tires - they had developed a permanent flat spot from 50 years of holding up the car).  The spare is still original.

It's said you should not judge a book by its cover.  I say you should not classify a car by its tires.

Some rules need to be broken.

Nobody has ever brought a new (NOS?) Corvair to a CORSA convention before. The rules were not written with such an occurrence in mind.

To say this car is not Factory Stock Original is to say no such car exists or can exist.  We might as well eliminate the class entirely.

Bill

On Jun 23, 2015, at 9:22 PM, Bruce Schug <bwschug at att.net> wrote:

Bill, are you saying the car had its original tires and they didn't meet the rules? If this is so, it's amazing they would hold air! Also, this reinforces my feelings about the Concours rules regarding tires.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 23, 2015, at 7:55 PM, Bill Hubbell via VirtualVairs <virtualvairs at corvair.org> wrote:
> 
> I strongly disagree with you on this one, Lon.  In every single other case where a car (including mine) was previously kicked out of stock there was always considerable time and mileage standing between the original car and the car being presented for classification.  That means there was a lot of room for tinkering.  None of us could really be sure whether the car being presented to us as stock really was.  There had always been some level of restoration, repair, repainting, part replacing.
> 
> None of that is true about this car. All he did was clean it, and he has publicly documented all of that in our own Comminique.
> 
> Every part he replaced was done strictly for safety, to get the car here
> 
> It has exactly 305.5 miles on the odometer.
> 
> Do you need to see an original 6.50-13 whitewall tire to know it is stock? He has one in the spare tire carrier - still has the felt pads underneath it.
> 
> The radio antenna and attaching parts are still in the paper bag as shipped from the factory.
> 
> Lon, if this car is not considered Factory Stock Original then no such animal exists any longer and we might as well stop kidding ourselves.
> 
> What are we saving this classification for anyway?  What are we protecting?
> 
> Bill
> 
> On Jun 23, 2015, at 6:55 PM, Corvair Underground via VirtualVairs <virtualvairs at corvair.org> wrote:
> 
>    It must be concourse classification day at the International.
> 
>    Corsa's rules for "bone-stock" class are very strict.  Maybe they should be changed - maybe not. BUT as for this case -
> 
>    The classification judge has to follow THE LETTER OF THE RULES as they exist NOW.  If he had agreed to "waive a rule" because of strong protest by Bill and Mark what would be the result? EVERY PERSON at the convention who got bumped out of stock class for something - minor or otherwise - could make the similar arguments.
>    And what about every person who got bumped out of stock class in previous conventions? What might they say about it? Would you blame them?
> 
>    Now perhaps Corsa stock classification rules need fixing - Then fix them. Don't wait until the day of classification and try to fix them then with pleas to the classification chairman to "bend the rules"..
> 
>   I miss all my friends at the national. Last year was so great I can't even put it into words. i had intended to be with you in Tennessee but it's just too much money for me.
> 
>   I have attended 30 (I beleive) Internationals and concours always bothers me - and it shouldn't. Concours should be a place where we proudly show our best Corvairs.  Unfortunately I've seen too many angry people - people who take it WAY too seriously.. Maybe that's to be expected from a class of people who have spent large sums of money and time on their car. But when we forget the enjoyment of the hobby it's just too bad.  With such high emotions it makes it even more necessary to classify to the strict letter of the law.
> 
>  Wonder why I never volunteered to judge concours?
> 
> Lon Wall
> 
> 
> From: Bill Hubbell <whubbell at verizon.net> To: Virtual Vairs <virtualvairs at corvair.org>, CORSA/CPF BoD <corsabod at corvair.org>, Corsa Chapters <chapters at corvair.org> Subject: <VV> CORSA blunder Message-ID: <EE38D3FB-7A98-4702-837A-3E83CFE62759 at verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I've never been more embarrassed by this club that by what just happened today. The '63 White Monza Lambrecht car was classified into the Modified class for Concours - technically correct due to the incorrect size of his whitewall radial tires, but grossly incorrect for what is probably the last most perfect factory original car
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