<VV> Display cars @ Convention

[James P. Rice]

To Seth and to --H:  Thank you both for you replies on this topic.  Both
were intelligent, thoughtful and informative.  You both done good.  

Bill also signed off saying:  "Bill Hubbell, President, Stock Corvair Group,
and one of  a few remaining CORSA members who "give a damn" about preserving
and  recognizing originality." 

I think this is a gross overstatement that you are one of the few.  Lots of
us care.  Even me, who view all cars as a starting point for my
creativity...or bad taste!  All the Corvairs I've had were well past being
original when I got them.  A couple were beyond practical saving.  Give all
of us some credit here.  We do care a lot about preserving originals, but
not with the zeal and fire breathing passion you have. 

Your main beef seems to be the car wasn't treated properly, as you
understand the concept.  If the owner wasn't upset, why are you?  Does he
care about originality less than you?  

So what are you planning to do to "fix" what you think needs fixing?  Talk
to the folks responsible to see that this doesn't happen again, if indeed it
was an ill treated car.   Just as an idea: I hope you contact the folks at
PCCA and ask them to once again ask the owner to bring the car and then have
it on display in the hotel lobby or the like during the Convention at
Springfield IL. next year.  Just a thought.   


Now maybe we can return to our regularly scheduled program. 

Historically Yours,
                           James

*******************************

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2015 20:23:04 -0400
From: Sethracer at aol.com
To: virtualvairs at corvair.org
Subject: <VV> Display cars at Knoxville

Bill wrote:
"Let me set the record straight and end this discussion.  I am the one upset
about this.  I am the one making a fuss about it." 
 
So I write:
The person who lights the fire is not necessarily the one who gets to  put
it out.
 
"Corsa" has proven, in the past, to be perfectly capable of displaying
special cars for Convention goers. In Detroit, they had a 1960 and a 1969 on
display at the end of the lobby, just outside the vendor area. In
Sturbridge, a  couple of race cars were displayed in the center of the
vendor area. 
Last  year, in Tacoma, Herb Berkman's (ex-car) was on display in the lobby
of the  hotel. These are just three examples at three conventions. This
pretty coupe  could have been displayed in the lobby of the hotel all week,
or while the owner  permitted it. That would have been a public display area
for all to see. The  Concours is a "Convention venue" and not technically
open to the public. That  the car was subjected to classification at all is
a mystery. There was no reason  to have the car in the competitive arena of
the Concours. The Stock Corvair  group could have done their honest
evaluation for the owner during the hotel  display. Was the reason that only
with a Concours entry could a "Classification"  be performed?. It seems that
the owner had no interest in that. As the  owner/maintainer of this
essentially new car, he knew of the stockness of the  car, but he had no
idea that Corsa had a rule-set developed over many years and  iterations.
That rule set was designed, and modified to provide guidelines for  folks
"wanting" to compete for cleanliness and preparation levels. It is a
service that Corsa provides to interested owners who want to display as
"correct" a car as they want to display. With the classification completed,
the  owner can than decide whether to go back and shoot for some other level
or not.  The Corsa Concours committee (like all volunteer committees) has,
in the  past, been criticized for not being even-handed, allowing an
exception  here, or making a scoring mistake there. This decision was right
by the rules.  But it should not have had to be made at all. 
 
I have attended every Corsa Convention since 1980. I have entered  a car in
the Concours competition whenever I brought one. I had a  car promoted into
senior division, then repeat 3 years later. But I have also  brought race
cars and entered them in Concours as well, with no  expectation of earning
anything. But I do gain an evaluation of condition!
 
So now what? First, criticism of either the classification procedure  or the
decision to not grant a waiver is useless. It wasn't and isn't a policy of
Corsa to ignore or belittle this car. It was what it was. Classification is
a service of Corsa, and need not be experienced, unless desired. Other than
the split between regular and Senior class, the "classification" serves to
provide the layout of the cars on the field. That could easily be done in
the  same way as the car display cars are arranged. Each car is individually
judged  against that "mythical" 100 point car, not against other cars on the
field.  "Stockish" car owners wanting to compete for a preservation award
could so  indicate on their car. If the judges deem them worthy, great.
 
Changes? - well, display cars should be invited and treated as display cars.
It might require some more coordination between the host chapter/organizers
and whoever is working with the hotel and venue. Anybody  who enters any of
the events should know what is expected of them, and what  to expect. 
 
- Seth Emerson
       
 
 
In a message dated 6/24/2015 6:18:22 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
virtualvairs at corvair.org writes:

Let me  set the record straight and end this discussion.  I am the one upset
about this.  I am the one making a fuss about it. 

The owner was  asked by convention organizers to bring the car here (from
Arizona), to show  it at Concours, having been highly profiled in both
national and CORSA  publications.  He did not seek to come here or to
designate the car as  anything in particular.  He did not buy this car to
bring it here and win  an award. 

The provenance of this car is a matter of public record and  is
indisputable. The fact that it is essentially a 52 year old "new" car is
not in doubt. 
 The condition of the car is amazing.  It offers a  rare chance to look back
52 years in time to see how a car came from the  factory - imperfections and
all.  The knowledge it can contribute to  those few of us who have an
interest in originality is a rare gift.  

Frankly, the owner is not nearly so upset about this as I am.   Once again 
CORSA has demonstrated their failure to have a venue to recognize
preservation of originality.

The fact is, the only official recognition  given by CORSA to original
vehicles is the presentation of a Preservation  Award, given to the
vehicle(s) with the high score in either (or both) Stock  classes (original
or restored).  However, a car has no chance of  competing for such award
unless it can successfully run the gauntlet of  classification, with all its
arcane rules. 

Last time I checked,  Corvairs were not delivered from the factory with
Coker tires, aftermarket  splatter paint (which looks nothing like the
original), reproduction  weatherstripping that doesn't seal or fit right, or
reproduction batteries  that are not "tar top"; yet all of these
"modifications" 
are permitted under  current CORSA stock classification rules.  Factory
Stock Restored  vehicles can even be completely stripped and repainted. 

The fact that  a car "fresh" from the showroom floor, but 52 years late
being delivered,  might need new tires, (or filters, battery, or even
shocks, brakes, etc), is  not surprising and should not reduce its value as
an otherwise original  car.  It should be possible to see past those
imperfections to note the  value of the rest of the car. 

Here is a car where you can see original  paint, original upholstery,
original hardware, original overspray, original  exhaust system, original
tire (yes, the spare) - all in pristine, UNRESTORED  condition. 

To fail to recognize this car as something special - that  is the point.  
It defines our club as one that doesn't care about such  things. 

Instead, we will recognize those who over-restore,  over-polish, and replace
old, original parts that could have been preserved  with new, imperfect 
reproductions and we will call them "winners".   

We will celebrate the cars that drive the fastest, get the best  mileage,
navigate tricky courses, have the hardest luck. 

We won't,  however, recognize and celebrate our heritage - not even when it
is staring us  in the face.

Bill Hubbell
President, Stock Corvair Group, and one of  a few remaining CORSA members
who "give a damn" about preserving and  recognizing originality. 

On Jun 24, 2015, at 7:20 AM, Bruce Schug via  Chapters
<chapters at corvair.org> wrote:

Would someone report  exactly what tires did this car have? I know the rules
in some classes are  incorrect, requiring 175/80s when 185/80s should be
required, but if the owner  wanted to present the car as original, he
clearly should have read the rules  over and over and contacted the Concours
Chair about any questions. The  solution for him would seem to have been a
set of Coker's reproduced bias ply  6.50-13s.