<VV> Was-Space Saver Spare/Now-Dangerous Tires and Dangerous Posts

Mon Oct 6 15:06:50 EDT 2014

Dear VV,

Please excuse the length but someone has offered  potentially deadly advice 
and it needs to be addressed.

I have said this before.  We need to be able to identify  the true gurus on 
VV and differentiate them from those who masquerade as having  knowledge.  
Usually, following the advice of the imposters might only cost  you time and 
money but in this case it could cost you your life.  I don't  think I am 
overreacting.

If you read his post and take his implication at face value,  you might 
believe that Space Saver spares (SSS) are perfectly acceptable for  normal 
driving with our Corvairs or more conventional cars, for that  matter.  If you 
stretch reason to its limit, you might give him the benefit  of the doubt in 
his opening sentence but his ending paragraph makes it  frighteningly clear 
that he thinks these SSS wheels are OK for our normal use;  even under skid 
conditions.  Even if you trust his memory, having four  identical wheels on 
the car is better than one oddball wheel; especially on  Corvairs.  He calls 
previous posts of mine and others as "more folklore  than fact" and then 
offers three resources as "informed articles" that  presumably support his 
position.  Actually, they really are informed in  varying degrees but I doubt 
he read his own references because they support the  cautionary advice 
offered by others and refute his own position.  Below are  examples of statements 
from those references.  I have included  commentary.

Do You Care About Your Spare?  by Csaba Csere  5/03

"Both  of these space-efficient spares have their downsides. They neither 
perform as  well nor last as long as conventional tires. When using one, your 
owner's manual  warns you to stay below 50 mph and get the tire replaced 
within 100 miles,  although tests we've conducted on the high-pressure rubber 
suggest they are far  more durable than that (August 1992)."  
(The operative phrase above is "They (collapsible or SSS)  neither perform 
as well .... as conventional tires.")
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How Far Can You Drive On A Spare Tire?  by Sami Haj-Assad  8/13

"In  comparison to a normal car tire they can have just one layer of 
polyester in the  sidewall and two belts of steel with a layer of polyester in the 
tread, meaning  they can’t take nearly as much road abuse as a normal 
tire."  
(The  operative phrase is "they can’t take nearly as much road abuse as a 
normal  tire." )

"However,  since they’re smaller and more compact, they’re missing out on 
two key aspects  of a regular tire: durability and stability."   
(The  operative phrase is "missing out on ....  stability.")

"Some  automakers also provide a full-size spare tire, although these are 
heavier and  take up more space, they’re robust and durable. These should be 
able to last you  much longer than the donut, or space-saver types of tires. 
However, they may use  a different tread make-up or a different kind of 
rubber compound than the rest  of your tires. This can affect overall handling 
and safety on the road."  
(This  whole paragraph is important because it points out that, even on 
conventional  cars, mismatched tires and even rubber type and tread patterns 
variations can  have a negative impact on "handling and safety on the road."  
this has  never been more true than with our  Corvairs.)

Spare Tire  from Wikipedia

"They are typically smaller than the normal tires  on the vehicle and can 
only be used for limited distances because of their short  life expectancy 
and low speed rating. As well, due to the different size of a  donut compared 
to regular wheel, _electronic  stability control_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_stability_control)  and _traction control  systems_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traction_control_system)  will not operate properly and 
should be  disabled until the original wheel is restored. Space saver spare 
tires also severely  compromise the braking (especially on cars not fitted 
with anti-lock brakes) and  handling of the car."
(The  important info is SSS wheels "severely compromise the braking and 
handling of  the car."

People can always find "dueling" references to support their  own positions 
so I am very happy that his own references trash his  position.  It 
relieves the "grey area" doubt.  Please read his  references and you will see that 
I did not cherry pick information to support my  position and ignore 
information that supports his.  I suspect he won't call  his own references 
"folklore" but you never know.

What have we learned?

1)  Never, never, never assume that an SS will perform  anywhere near the 
performance of a standard wheel.  They are very dangerous  when used as 
anything more than an emergency measure.  This is especially  the case with our 
Corvairs with their sensitivity to wheel issues.  This is  especially the 
case with earlies.  Please reference the posts I and others  have made on this 
subject.  If you can't find mine, email me and I will  forward a copy.

2)  Please identify contributors on SS who can help  you.  Listen to them.  
Maybe more important, identify the imposters so  you can avoid their advice 
or at least take it with a grain of salt.  If  they merely parrot others, 
the advice may or may not be applicable to the  specific topic at-hand but 
little harm is likely to occur.  However, as is  the case on this topic, 
accepting the information at face value could be  dangerous or even deadly.  
Presenting information with arrogance does not  make it correct.

3)  Just in general, when you use a reference, you should  read past the 
title because the content may not support your position.   Amazing.

Sorry for the length.

Doc
'60 Corvette, '61 Rampside, '62 Rampside, '64 Spyder coupe,  '65 
Greenbrier, '66 Canadian Corsa turbo coupe, '67 Nova SS, '68 Camaro  convertible
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In a message dated 10/6/2014 4:56:10 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
virtualvairs-request at corvair.org writes:

Message:  2
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 20:24:17 -0400
From: jvhroberts at aol.com
To:  vairtec at comcast.net, virtualvairs at corvair.org
Subject: Re: <VV> Space  Saver Spare for Early Model
Message-ID:  <8D1AF12FFE120C1-C80-22A39 at webmail-m224.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Given there seems to be more  folklore than fact, here's some informed 
articles on Space Saver spare  tires:

http://www.caranddriver.com/columns/do-you-care-about-your-spare

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2013/08/how-far-can-you-drive-on-a-spare-
tire.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spare_tire

I  can't find it, but Car and Driver, well over 20 years ago, did skid pad 
tests  with a couple of cars with 4 space saver donuts each. They were 
surprised how  well they did, but then again, they were expecting (as was I) to 
have a really  poor handling car. The handling was fine, the dry grip was not 
 impressive!!

John  Roberts