<VV> Steering woes

Fri Jan 3 16:58:25 EST 2014

I first noticed this type of motion when I started teching Corvairs for AX and Time Trials in the early '70s. I would have the owner move the steering wheel back and forth against the free play. I was looking for play at the lower bushing of the steering box, and also for play at the pitman arm bushing. I found that all Corvairs did this to some degree. My reasoning was that this was a torque reaction that was out of proportion with normal driving, as others have noted there is less resistance to turning when the wheel is moving. My plan is, if I get another Stinger running, I would place a diagonal from just forward of the idler arm where the box member supports the trunk floor to just forward of the steering box at the bottom of steering box's box section. I used the same technique to find worn bushings in steering racks and rod end in Sports Racers and Formula Cars when I did  SCCA Tech. 
When one puts about 15 pound feet of torque into the steering shaft, one will get about 230 out of the steering box.
StingerKen

-----Original Message-----
>From: James Cuneo <jamescuneo at hotmail.com>
>Sent: Jan 3, 2014 1:34 PM
>To: "virtualvairs at corvair.org" <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
>Subject: <VV> Steering woes
>
> All, Back from the holiday and catching up on email. I want to thank everyone for their input on my steering issue.I took your collective advice and increased pressure in the fronts to 24 psi, 34 rear.Huge improvement with steering feel with not much increase in harshness, it truly drives like a different car. About the box movement, it is perceptible but much reduced. I wonder if it had the original length arms, would, could I see this movement? Having a longer arm (lever) should reduce the force relayed by box  to turn the front wheels, no? Still planning on thorough inspection when time allows. Car is not daily driver.Thanks again,Jim Cuneo
>
>
>--Forwarded Message Attachment--
>From: vairtec at comcast.net
>To: virtualvairs at corvair.org
>Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 10:44:12 -0500
>Subject: Re: <VV> Air?  Chassis rot?
>
>Someone wrote:
>> You should be able to crank on the steering wheel with the tires locked
>> stationary, and the steering box shouldn't move.
> 
>"Shouldn't" is the operative work here.
> 
>A Corvair as designed should not exhibit movement of the steering box, 
>but the cars are now 50 years old and in a lot of instances, rusty.  
>While I think it is more likely that worn pieces of the steering 
>mechanism are what are moving, I see no reason to doubt that an entire 
>steering box, 50 years old and on a 50-year-old frame rail on a 
>50-years-rusting car, might itself be moving.
>
>
>--Forwarded Message Attachment--
>From: vair65 at sisna.com
>CC: virtualvairs at corvair.org
>To: ricebugg at comcast.net
>Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 08:58:27 -0700
>Subject: Re: <VV> Steering Box Movement
>
>james-couldn't agree more. the owner e-mailed stating that he had checked
>the steering box mounting bolts to make sure that they were tight (in case
>the holes had "walled" out) and the only easy way to do this is to take the
>tires off which takes the tire pressure question out of the picture. i have
>never seen rust attack that area of the sub-frame (being on the west side
>of the us) but neither would i ever be willing to sat it can't happen. his
>future plans call for dropping the suspension and gas tank so he can better
>see what is going on but until then he is taking his chances. mike mann
> 
> 
>On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 5:19 AM, <ricebugg at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
>>
>> All:  While I have long deleted the original posting, we need to consider
>> the circumstances of the question.  Owner thought something was amiss.
>>  With someone in the drivers seat, he poked his head under the car and saw
>> the steering box move.  Didn't have to put a dial indicator on it.  Saw it
>> move.
>>
>>
>>
>> Under no circumstances should the steering box move.  Ever.  For any
>> reason.
>>
>>
>>
>> We know steering effort given any combination of tires, rims and PSI is
>> highest sitting still.  It's the old "The steering get easier the faster I
>> go" syndrome.  Rolling tires turn easier than static ones.
>>
>>
>>
>> I cannot imagine anybody with enough upper body strength being able to
>> torque the steering wheel against and combination of tire/rim/PSI who would
>> not move the tire/rim/PSI combination before seeing the steering box moves.
>>  Insert exclaimation points here.  Get the picture?!  Bolt the car to a
>> wall and turn the steering wheel until exhaustion sets in, the steering box
>> should not move.  If it does....
>>
>>
>>
>> Just because we have never heard of this happening before, does not mean:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> A. It isn't happening on cars whose drivers are to numb to notice or;
>>
>> B. that serious internal chassis rot in the steering box area won't begin,
>> or hasn't begun to happen, on cars that are near 45 to 55 years old.  (You
>> know you're getting old when it is easier to subtract from your current age
>> how old you were when something happened to determine how old something is
>> rather than to use fingers and toes to add it up.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Some of you experts - be you real or imagined - need to stick you head
>> under a bunch of cars and see what, if anything, is going on.  Probably
>> need to figure out a sure and certain test method.  This may be a a one
>> time only thing unique to a car, or the first example of a serious long
>> term problem for Corvairs.  Steering box failure at the point of mounting
>> to the chassis would seriously make our cars unsafe at any speed.
>>
>> This topic kept me awake this morning.  It is now 6:15AM CST.  I'm suppose
>> to be asleep. But....
>>
>> Might as well get going now, probably need to get going now.  We have a
>> out of state funeral it go to tomorrow.  Gotta go dig my driveway out from
>> the overnight snow fall and get packed etc.
>>
>>
>> Historically Yours,
>>                         James Rice
>>
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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