<VV> unintended acceleration-no Corvair

Sun Apr 14 22:54:48 EDT 2013

Oh, I didn't mention the Toyota unintended acceleration, or others, 
because that is a different animal.

The Audi cases were always from a standstill and usually at the 
beginning of a drive, so I do believe these were wrong pedal 
applications. BTDT twice!. When a brake pedal is applied while standing 
still, I have never been able to get the engine to move the car 
(overpower the brakes), even with high horsepower engines.

Your cases are what I do know can happen with today's cars. Sticking 
cruise control can happen even with cable tying the pedal to the 
throttle, as the cruise is also connected by cable to the throttle.

Now with drive by wire, where just electrons go between the pedal and 
the throttle... It' s a whole new ball game. They test vehicles, mostly 
DOD types, at work for their reaction to RF signals being applied to 
them. They do react! But, I have not heard of brakes not working due to 
RF energy. The ABS might apply, but the brakes still work. This is 
different than those mid 70s Buicks with ABS that did suffer brake 
issues from high power transmitters in their trunks (police duty, etc). 
That does seem to have been fixed back then.

Frank DuVal

On 4/14/2013 9:53 PM, Tom Berg wrote:
> Frank,
>   
> For what it's worth, twice I experienced unintended acceleration in rental cars. The first time was a with a late '90s Ford Taurus on an wide-open highway in Mississippi. For maybe 10 miles I had the cruise control set at 60 mph with my right foot idle, resting on its side the floor, no where near the pedals. The car began climbing a slight upgrade; then it began accelerating moderately.
>   
> "What's this?" I thought, but there was no other traffic and I didn't rush to correct it. We went maybe a third of a mile ("we" being the Taurus with its own mind and me) and speed had climbed to 65. I touched the brake pedal and it disconnected. That was it, and it never happened again with that car before I turned it in.
>   
> The second time was a year or so later in a mid-size Pontiac in California. I waited in a left-turn lane at the head of a line of cars, and when I got the green arrow I began moving; about a quarter-way into my turn the car began accelerating a little more briskly on its own. "Hmm," I said, and touched the brake pedal. End of event, and I finished my turn and went on my way. Again, no recurrences with that car.
>   
> To me they were minor things and I didn't report them to anyone, but I was certainly aware of that infamous Audi event in the garage and the woman driver whom everyone dismissed as a panic case. And they demonstrated to me that unintended acceleration is definitely possible. It's probably electronically induced, maybe by spurious signals from outside or inside the car, and is almost impossible for mechanics and investigators to duplicate.  It happened to me twice, and no, I wasn't jamming the wrong pedal.
>   
> --Tom in Ohio
>   
>
> ________________________________
>   From: Frank DuVal <corvairduval at cox.net>
> To: virtualvairs at corvair.org
> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 12:40 PM
> Subject: Re: <VV> Expert witness info - Corvair included
>    
>
> I have a different view, as I skipped to many pages deep before reading
> anything. I can not say I would agree with any other ramblings he wrote,
> as I only read this one so far.
>
> I found his report on the Audi 5000. I agree with everything he says on
> this particular subject.
>
> I'll skip to the chase:
>
> All the unintended acceleration reports of the Audi 5000 were just
> people stepping on the wrong pedal.
>
> The only fault on Audi's part was a slightly offset pedal placement from
> what was "normal" back then.
>
> Now for the good part, I have personal experience of steeping on the
> wrong pedal, TWICE! Let me tell you it is hard to convince yourself your
> foot is on the wrong pedal, even when the "brake" pedal is on the floor
> and a solid object is getting bigger in your sight. Both time by the
> time I reacted and moved my foot to the correct brake pedal, I had
> stopped by the force of the unmoveable object. No, not a Corvair, but
> cars I wasn't used to driving, just moving around the shop. One was
> right hand drive. BTW, it was the clutch pedal I found with my right
> foot, not the accelerator pedal. One wasn't even running, just going
> down a slope. Enough for now, maybe the statue of limitations hasn't
> gone away yet.
>
> Frank DuVal
>
> On 4/14/2013 10:13 AM, Ken Klingaman wrote:
>> I read his first case late last night, and contrary to other previous readings, I will not/can not reread this self promotional drivel.
>>
>> As much as we, as a society, want to blame someone for what happens, sometimes S**t happens. I can't comment on the accident recreation, I was not there nor did we see all of his data.
>>
>> Ken Klingaman
>>
>> For some reason, probably the outcome of a Google search, I ended up at the
>> Blog of a crash scene investigator. He was a GM employee, worked on
>> Corvair  lawsuit response, and left GM. He eventually ended up on the "other
>> side",  so to speak. His name is Carl F. Thelin. A link to his musings is below.
>> He does  talk about many "events", as he calls them, as well as discussing
>> the court  rituals he has experienced, etc. I am not endorsing his
>> suggestions, his  conclusions or even his observations, but I found it interesting
>> reading.  Plenty of Corvair discussion is included. Some of it will, indeed
>> piss you off.  But that is what discussion is for, isn't it? - Seth Emerson
>>
>> http://cxsi.blogspot.com/
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