<VV> LM turbos and no lower shrouds
Eric S. Eberhard
flash at vicsmba.com
Tue Oct 25 17:21:29 EDT 2011
http://www.corvaircorsa.com/interior.html
A quote ...
A two-stage idiot light and buzzer system alerted the driver in the
event of an engine overheat condition.
EM no buzzer.
I am comparing the temp on my oil gauge to the time the idiot light comes on.
E
At 02:00 PM 10/25/2011, you wrote:
>The
> >idiot light on the Corvair comes on over 280, maybe 290, or so
>
>What idiot lite? And what is being measured? Except for a 1960, oil
>temperature is neither measured nor monitored.
>Timothy Shortle (back) in Durango Colorado 81301
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
> >From: "Eric S. Eberhard" <flash at vicsmba.com>
> >Sent: Oct 25, 2011 1:26 PM
> >To: jvhroberts at aol.com, virtualvairs at corvair.org
> >Subject: Re: <VV> LM turbos and no lower shrouds
> >
> >Hmm ... Mobil1.com mentions their oils are safe at sustained temps
> >over 500 degrees. Of course I would expect most of the rest of the
> >car to melt down! Although my diesel run EGT temps over 1300 degrees
> >for very long sustained periods and nothing has melted on that! . 260
> >is NOT hot. In fact my Judson car does not even run well until I get
> >the oil temps over 260 (head temps be darned). If I advance the
> >timing on that car I can make it so that the idiot light wants to
> >come on going up the hot steep grades, so I do have to keep it (not
> >surprisingly) close to stock.
> >
> >Cooler is NOT always better. The dampers on my cars seem to regulate
> >temps -- rarely, in fact, are they fully open. Generally they are
> >partially open unless hot and flogging it. With normal driving head
> >temp rarely change, except on long grades when boost goes up, they
> >will rise. I suspect the doors are fully open but I never ran back
> >to check while driving :-) Check this article on Corvair oils out
> >... you will note that until the oil is over 210F you are not even
> >getting good lubrication and likely are bypassing the oil filter and
> >using dirty oil. Prolonging warm-up and running too cold is BAD, not
> >good. Yes it is cooler, cooler not always good.
> >
> >http://www.widman.biz/uploads/Corvair_oil.pdf (this is
> excellent info BTW)
> >
> >Note that he points out that 320F+ temps are found in turbos ... I'd
> >think the idiot light would scream as my 102 with Judson will scream
> >before 290 ...
> >
> >You do know they use mostly stock Corvair engine on
> >airplanes? Without any cooling fan? With turbo motors?
> >
> >I wonder if you have actually tried a more or less stock car that was
> >correct? For example, some discount the muffler design or change the
> >carb. Both of these were designed to limit boost. If you changed
> >these out ... you are running more boost than was intended, which is
> >when the can of worms is opened. Have you tried one with everything
> >in place with correct carb, muffler, timing, etc? Dwell
> >correct? All that good stuff. And then seen if it over heats?
> >
> >E
> >
> >At 03:23 AM 10/25/2011, jvhroberts at aol.com wrote:
> >>I had an oil temp gage, and overcooled oil wasn't an issue! With oil
> >>temps hovering around 260, I should've installed a more effective
> oil cooler.
> >>
> >>The thermostats on a Corvair were never meant to regulate
> >>temperature as they do on a water pumper, they're meant to speed
> >>warm up, with the possible exception of the 1960 setup. But the less
> >>said about the toilet seat the better!!
> >>
> >>As such, consistent engine temps are a pipe dream on a Corvair, they
> >>just don't happen, as cooling limitations abound.
> >>
> >>For a stock turbo car, anything done to improve cooling is a
> >>definite improvement. Drive a stock N/A car hard, the same thing is true.
> >>
> >>John Roberts
> >>
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Eric S. Eberhard <flash at vicsmba.com>
> >>To: jvhroberts <jvhroberts at aol.com>; virtualvairs
> <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
> >>Cc: virtualvairs <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
> >>Sent: Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:48 pm
> >>Subject: Re: <VV> LM turbos and no lower shrouds
> >>
> >>
> >>I don't think we disagree :-) I am a turbo owner most of the time
> >>(don't actually have one now). It will run cooler without
> >>shrouds. No argument. The argument is whether that is a good thing
> >>or not ...
> >>
> >>The question is -- will it run consistent temperatures? Will it warm
> >>up fast enough? Will it ever run too cool (oil temps under
> >>220)? Will anything be damaged by hot engine parts getting soaked in
> >>cold water. How do like all that dirt and crud all over parts of the
> >>engine never designed to be exposed? Throw a rock, bend a pushrod
> >>tube, lose an engine?
> >>
> >>And I guess it depends on your definition of "adequate" is ... mine
> >>is within the range on the gauge and not popping off the idiot light!
> >>
> >>The gauge on a Spyder ranges from 200 to 600 ... and generally "in
> >>the middle" is what is considered the normal operating range. So 400
> >>is certainly not too hot. If your car runs at 300, that is awfully
> >>cool and is costing you mileage. If you are driving around town and
> >>it is under 220 you are sludging your engine horribly. If you are
> >>425-450 you are still close to the center of the gauge and I think
> >>that is fine -- 350-450 is pretty normal, I would not get excited
> >>even 25 more degrees from that.
> >>
> >>You might want to go drive it at 300 for a while, then stop, and use
> >>a heat measuring gun on the oil filter. I bet you are under 220 and
> >>you are damaging your engine by being too cool. Also, I bet you
> >>drive hard part of the time, and like a commuter most of the time. I
> >>bet you have wide swings in temps (shoot it with a heat gun). That
> >>also is very hard on the engine.
> >>
> >>All I am saying is that cooler is not always better and it is easy to
> >>keep a stock car where it belongs by leaving the stock cooling system
> >>alone. If you modify it, carefully consider the cooling mods as part
> >>of the project.
> >>
> >>E
> >>
> >>At 05:23 PM 10/24/2011,
> <mailto:jvhroberts at aol.com>jvhroberts at aol.com wrote:
> >> >As a turbo owner, I'd have to say you're dead wrong. Mine definitely
> >> >ran cooler with the lower shrouds removed, and even then, adequate
> >> >is NOT a word I would use! These cars can always use more,
> >> >especially at prolonged full power.
> >> >
> >> >John Roberts
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >From: Eric S. Eberhard <<mailto:flash at vicsmba.com>flash at vicsmba.com>
> >> >To: jvhroberts <<mailto:jvhroberts at aol.com>jvhroberts at aol.com>;
> >> virtualvairs <<mailto:virtualvairs at corvair.org>virtualvairs at corvair.org>
> >> >Sent: Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:36 pm
> >> >Subject: Re: <VV> LM turbos and no lower shrouds
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >I really think that a stock engine with the stock cooling is more
> >> >than adequate. In fact, I would bet money that a stock engine with
> >> >stock cooling runs COOLER than one with the shrouds removed. And I
> >> >dare you to drive spiritedly and get that lower part really hot and
> >> >then splash through some cold water. And, I really like my heater in
> >> >the winter.
> >> >
> >> >You don't get much worse (for straining the cooling system) than the
> >> >spirited driving in AZ where 105 is common, 120 happens .... I never
> >> >had cooling problems even on steep grades. I drove my little Spyder
> >> >30k miles and it never complained. I've gone over 100 mph in that
> >> >car when it was over 100. My coupe has A/C and PG and I can drive it
> >> >up a 6% grade with A/C on (which blows ice BTW stock except Sanden
> >> >compressor) at 75 (my engine is tweaked a little, it is a 110 instead
> >> >of 102) when it is 105 out, no problems. In fact in all of my life
> >> >of having Corvairs (including 2 LM turbos and 1 EM turbo) and always
> >> >with stock shrouds, bellows, doors, and very importantly the sealing
> >> >of the engine compartment -- I have never had a Corvair
> >> >overheat. Not even after losing a belt (STOP fast!). In fact, if
> >> >anything I'd complain that it warms up too slow on cold days ...
> >> >seems to take forever even with the doors closed and the summer
> >> >plates off. And I am not in-experienced -- I've had them 35 years,
> >> >10 more years if count the ones I worked on with my grandpa, and I
> >> >have owned as many as 10 at a time, never zero, and currently
> >> >2. Last time I checked I have had more than 30 Corvairs. I actually
> >> >do know what I am talking about. So I will simply have to agree
> >> to disagree.
> >> >
> >> >E
> >> >
> >> >At 03:30 AM 10/23/2011,
> >>
> <<mailto:jvhroberts at aol.com%3Ejvhroberts at aol.com?>mailto:jvhroberts at aol.com>jvhroberts at aol.com
>
> >> wrote:
> >> > >Um, the stock system is not all that and a bag o' chips. Sorry. For
> >> > >those of us who have turbo cars, etc., the cooling is utterly
> >> > >inadequate. Removing the shrouds produces a noticeable drop in CHT
> >> > >and oil temperature.
> >> > >Even on a non turbo car, if driven spiritedly, the cooling system
> >> > >runs out of breath.
> >> > >
> >> > >So, there is, in fact a better system out there. GM simply failed to
> >> > >install it!!
> >> > >
> >> > >John Roberts
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >-----Original Message-----
> >> > >From: Eric S. Eberhard
> >>
> <<<mailto:flash at vicsmba.com%3Eflash at vicsmba.com?>mailto:flash at vicsmba.com>flash at vicsmba.com>
> >> > >To: virtualvairs
> >>
> <<<mailto:virtualvairs at corvair.org%3Evirtualvairs at corvair.org?>mailto:virtualvairs at corvair.org>virtualvairs at corvair.org>
> >> > >Sent: Sun, Oct 23, 2011 2:30 am
> >> > >Subject: <VV> LM turbos and no lower shrouds
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >I am always puzzled by this discussion which comes up every so
> >> > >often. The car was designed well from the factory. If you have
> >> > >everything correct -- all the shrouds as well as seals and so forth,
> >> > >there is no better system. I am in AZ, totally bone-stock, at
> >> > >altitude (3500-8000 feet), summer temps of 110 ... and I NEVER have
> >> > >even gotten remotely close to overheating. Our speed limit is 75 and
> >> > >I can go up a 6% grade at 80, no over heating. From my 3500 to 7500
> >> > >feet happens in 6 miles, no overheat even at 80.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Eric S. Eberhard
> >> >(928) 567-3727 Voice
> >> >(928) 567-6122 Fax
> >> >(928) 301-7537 Cell
> >> >
> >> >Vertical Integrated Computer Systems, LLC
> >> >Metropolis Support, LLC
> >> >
> >> >For Metropolis support and VICS MBA
> >> >Support!!!!
> >>
> <<http://www.vicsmba.com%3Ehttp://www.vicsmba.com>http://www.vicsmba.com>http://www.vicsmba.com
> >> >
> >> >For
> >> >pictures:
> >> ><<<http://www.vicsmba.com/ourpics/index.html%3Ehttp://www.vicsmb
> a.co>http://www.vicsmba.com/ourpics/index.html%3Ehttp://www.vicsmba.co
> >>
> m/ourpics/index.html>http://www.vicsmba.com/ourpics/index.html>http://www.vicsmba.com/ourpics/index.html
> >> >
> >> >(You can see why we love this state :-) )
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>Eric S. Eberhard
> >>(928) 567-3727 Voice
> >>(928) 567-6122 Fax
> >>(928) 301-7537 Cell
> >>
> >>Vertical Integrated Computer Systems, LLC
> >>Metropolis Support, LLC
> >>
> >>For Metropolis support and VICS MBA
> >>Support!!!! <http://www.vicsmba.com>http://www.vicsmba.com
> >>
> >>For
> >>pictures:
> >><http://www.vicsmba.com/ourpics/index.html>http://www.vicsmba.com/
> ourpics/index.html
> >>
> >>(You can see why we love this state :-) )
> >>
> >
> >
> >Eric S. Eberhard
> >(928) 567-3727 Voice
> >(928) 567-6122 Fax
> >(928) 301-7537 Cell
> >
> >Vertical Integrated Computer Systems, LLC
> >Metropolis Support, LLC
> >
> >For Metropolis support and VICS MBA Support!!!! http://www.vicsmba.com
> >
> >For pictures: http://www.vicsmba.com/ourpics/index.html
> >
> >(You can see why we love this state :-) )
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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Eric S. Eberhard
(928) 567-3727 Voice
(928) 567-6122 Fax
(928) 301-7537 Cell
Vertical Integrated Computer Systems, LLC
Metropolis Support, LLC
For Metropolis support and VICS MBA Support!!!! http://www.vicsmba.com
For pictures: http://www.vicsmba.com/ourpics/index.html
(You can see why we love this state :-) )
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