<VV> LM turbos and no lower shrouds
Eric S. Eberhard
flash at vicsmba.com
Tue Oct 25 14:31:33 EDT 2011
Actually I have had one 62 turbo and two 65 turbos ... never had one
overheat ever. Actually, I don't think anyone could make one
overheat here even at 105 degrees and driving hard up a 6% grade ...
you'll make it hot ... but it won't over heat. That is assuming the
stock system is correct. I see a lot without something in place ...
the engine compartment has to be sealed for it to work. E
At 05:55 PM 10/24/2011, Bryan Blackwell wrote:
>One other little point - you guys are talking about two different
>engines. A 145 inch 150 is somewhat different from a 164 inch
>180. Based on what I've seen over the years, 140/150 is right on
>the edge of the stock cooling system. The 180 gets you over the edge.
>
>--Bryan
>
>On Oct 24, 2011, at 8:48 PM, Eric S. Eberhard wrote:
>
> > I don't think we disagree :-) I am a turbo owner most of the time
> > (don't actually have one now). It will run cooler without
> > shrouds. No argument. The argument is whether that is a good
> thing or not ...
> >
> > The question is -- will it run consistent temperatures? Will it warm
> > up fast enough? Will it ever run too cool (oil temps under
> > 220)? Will anything be damaged by hot engine parts getting soaked in
> > cold water. How do like all that dirt and crud all over parts of the
> > engine never designed to be exposed? Throw a rock, bend a pushrod
> > tube, lose an engine?
> >
> > And I guess it depends on your definition of "adequate" is ... mine
> > is within the range on the gauge and not popping off the idiot light!
> >
> > The gauge on a Spyder ranges from 200 to 600 ... and generally "in
> > the middle" is what is considered the normal operating range. So 400
> > is certainly not too hot. If your car runs at 300, that is awfully
> > cool and is costing you mileage. If you are driving around town and
> > it is under 220 you are sludging your engine horribly. If you are
> > 425-450 you are still close to the center of the gauge and I think
> > that is fine -- 350-450 is pretty normal, I would not get excited
> > even 25 more degrees from that.
> >
> > You might want to go drive it at 300 for a while, then stop, and use
> > a heat measuring gun on the oil filter. I bet you are under 220 and
> > you are damaging your engine by being too cool. Also, I bet you
> > drive hard part of the time, and like a commuter most of the time. I
> > bet you have wide swings in temps (shoot it with a heat gun). That
> > also is very hard on the engine.
> >
> > All I am saying is that cooler is not always better and it is easy to
> > keep a stock car where it belongs by leaving the stock cooling system
> > alone. If you modify it, carefully consider the cooling mods as part
> > of the project.
> >
> > E
> >
> > At 05:23 PM 10/24/2011, jvhroberts at aol.com wrote:
> >> As a turbo owner, I'd have to say you're dead wrong. Mine definitely
> >> ran cooler with the lower shrouds removed, and even then, adequate
> >> is NOT a word I would use! These cars can always use more,
> >> especially at prolonged full power.
> >>
> >> John Roberts
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Eric S. Eberhard <flash at vicsmba.com>
> >> To: jvhroberts <jvhroberts at aol.com>; virtualvairs
> <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
> >> Sent: Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:36 pm
> >> Subject: Re: <VV> LM turbos and no lower shrouds
> >>
> >>
> >> I really think that a stock engine with the stock cooling is more
> >> than adequate. In fact, I would bet money that a stock engine with
> >> stock cooling runs COOLER than one with the shrouds removed. And I
> >> dare you to drive spiritedly and get that lower part really hot and
> >> then splash through some cold water. And, I really like my heater in
> >> the winter.
> >>
> >> You don't get much worse (for straining the cooling system) than the
> >> spirited driving in AZ where 105 is common, 120 happens .... I never
> >> had cooling problems even on steep grades. I drove my little Spyder
> >> 30k miles and it never complained. I've gone over 100 mph in that
> >> car when it was over 100. My coupe has A/C and PG and I can drive it
> >> up a 6% grade with A/C on (which blows ice BTW stock except Sanden
> >> compressor) at 75 (my engine is tweaked a little, it is a 110 instead
> >> of 102) when it is 105 out, no problems. In fact in all of my life
> >> of having Corvairs (including 2 LM turbos and 1 EM turbo) and always
> >> with stock shrouds, bellows, doors, and very importantly the sealing
> >> of the engine compartment -- I have never had a Corvair
> >> overheat. Not even after losing a belt (STOP fast!). In fact, if
> >> anything I'd complain that it warms up too slow on cold days ...
> >> seems to take forever even with the doors closed and the summer
> >> plates off. And I am not in-experienced -- I've had them 35 years,
> >> 10 more years if count the ones I worked on with my grandpa, and I
> >> have owned as many as 10 at a time, never zero, and currently
> >> 2. Last time I checked I have had more than 30 Corvairs. I actually
> >> do know what I am talking about. So I will simply have to agree
> to disagree.
> >>
> >> E
> >>
> >> At 03:30 AM 10/23/2011,
> <mailto:jvhroberts at aol.com>jvhroberts at aol.com wrote:
> >>> Um, the stock system is not all that and a bag o' chips. Sorry. For
> >>> those of us who have turbo cars, etc., the cooling is utterly
> >>> inadequate. Removing the shrouds produces a noticeable drop in CHT
> >>> and oil temperature.
> >>> Even on a non turbo car, if driven spiritedly, the cooling system
> >>> runs out of breath.
> >>>
> >>> So, there is, in fact a better system out there. GM simply failed to
> >>> install it!!
> >>>
> >>> John Roberts
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Eric S. Eberhard <<mailto:flash at vicsmba.com>flash at vicsmba.com>
> >>> To: virtualvairs
> <<mailto:virtualvairs at corvair.org>virtualvairs at corvair.org>
> >>> Sent: Sun, Oct 23, 2011 2:30 am
> >>> Subject: <VV> LM turbos and no lower shrouds
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I am always puzzled by this discussion which comes up every so
> >>> often. The car was designed well from the factory. If you have
> >>> everything correct -- all the shrouds as well as seals and so forth,
> >>> there is no better system. I am in AZ, totally bone-stock, at
> >>> altitude (3500-8000 feet), summer temps of 110 ... and I NEVER have
> >>> even gotten remotely close to overheating. Our speed limit is 75 and
> >>> I can go up a 6% grade at 80, no over heating. From my 3500 to 7500
> >>> feet happens in 6 miles, no overheat even at 80.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> Eric S. Eberhard
> >> (928) 567-3727 Voice
> >> (928) 567-6122 Fax
> >> (928) 301-7537 Cell
> >>
> >> Vertical Integrated Computer Systems, LLC
> >> Metropolis Support, LLC
> >>
> >> For Metropolis support and VICS MBA
> >> Support!!!! <http://www.vicsmba.com>http://www.vicsmba.com
> >>
> >> For
> >> pictures:
> >>
> <http://www.vicsmba.com/ourpics/index.html>http://www.vicsmba.com/ourpics/index.html
> >>
> >> (You can see why we love this state :-) )
> >>
> >
> >
> > Eric S. Eberhard
> > (928) 567-3727 Voice
> > (928) 567-6122 Fax
> > (928) 301-7537 Cell
> >
> > Vertical Integrated Computer Systems, LLC
> > Metropolis Support, LLC
> >
> > For Metropolis support and VICS MBA Support!!!! http://www.vicsmba.com
> >
> > For pictures: http://www.vicsmba.com/ourpics/index.html
> >
> > (You can see why we love this state :-) )
> >
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Eric S. Eberhard
(928) 567-3727 Voice
(928) 567-6122 Fax
(928) 301-7537 Cell
Vertical Integrated Computer Systems, LLC
Metropolis Support, LLC
For Metropolis support and VICS MBA Support!!!! http://www.vicsmba.com
For pictures: http://www.vicsmba.com/ourpics/index.html
(You can see why we love this state :-) )
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