<VV> Barn ~ and swamp ~ Finds (long)

[RoboMan91324 at aol.com]

If you play around with cars long enough, you will eventually  come across 
a car "opportunity" that is misrepresented.  Sometimes, this is  due to how 
someone interprets terms such as "has only surface rust," "drive  anywhere," 
"runs great," etc.  However, much of what has been written here  on this 
subject tells me that there are sellers out there who are deliberately  
misrepresenting their "barn and swamp" gems.
 
Most of you who have written about their experiences say that  you have 
made in-depth phone inquiries before taking a trip to see/buy the  vehicle.  
This is pretty much all you can do to protect yourself before  your on-site 
inspection.  I have experienced both what I assumed to be  misinterpretations 
as well as deliberate misrepresentations.  There are two  attempted "frauds" 
that come to mind.  The first was what appeared to be a  good deal on a 
1967 big block Corvette that was represented to be both  "professionally 
restored and numbers matching."  It was neither.  The  restoration part could have 
been a misinterpretation of what a professional  restoration is but the 
numbers matching claim was fraudulent.  When I got  there and started to check 
the engine block numbers against the VIN plate  numbers, the seller went 
into a rant to try to browbeat me to keep me from  checking the numbers.  I 
told him that there was no way that I was going to  buy the car without 
checking his claim of "numbers matching."  I wrote down  the numbers from the 
engine and as I was starting to crawl under the dash to  check the VIN plate, he 
said, "Don't bother, its not there."  Of course, I  told him what I thought 
of him and he was unabashed.  Unfortunately, This  escapade cost me a round 
trip flight from Philadelphia to Tampa and back as well  as the cost of a 
car rental.  Those of you who fly know that the cost of  last minute flights 
are VERY expensive.  From my conversation, this guy  knew I was knowledgeable 
about the vehicle and had to know I was going to check  numbers yet he let 
me take the trip anyway.
 
The second time I was sort of victimized was with a 1965  Corvair Monza 140 
HP I won on eBay.  Fortunately, it was only a two hour  drive from my home. 
 As memory serves me, it was described as "solid, a  great driver, faded 
paint but no rust, etc."  He did say that the engine  leaked oil.  It also 
included a "complete, recently rebuilt spare 140  engine that was never run 
since the rebuild."  There were pictures on his  eBay ad but it became apparent 
he was very artistic with the angles from which  he shot the pictures.  I 
talked with him before I bid and asked all of the  pertinent questions I 
could think of.  After I won the bid, I called him to  ask where the local DMV 
was so I could register the car and drive it home.   I had arranged for a 
friend to drive down with me and drive my car back.   This is when his story 
changed.  He told me that the car could not be  driven because the brakes were 
bad and a couple of other things.  I asked  him why he had described it as 
drivable and he came up with a BS answer.  I  was still interested in it but 
because I now had to arrange for a trailer and  tow vehicle, I told the 
seller the pick up date would be delayed.  The  seller told me he wanted 
payment "now" but I told him that the vehicle was  obviously not listed accurately 
(I was tactful) and I would not pay him  sight-unseen.  I found out why he 
wanted up front payment before my  visit.
 
Long story short; there was cancer around the windshield and  backlight as 
well as other usual places.  He had shot around these for the  pics he used 
on eBay.  There was billowing smoke coming from one of the  exhaust pipes.  
He tried to claim it was oil dripping on the exhaust that  was causing the 
smoke.  I told him that the exhaust could not have heated  enough when newly 
started to cause any smoke and the smoke was coming FROM the  pipe not OFF 
OF the pipe.  The car's interior was poor and the dash looked  like someone 
had removed the radio with a hatchet.  Again, he had shot the  pics around 
these problems.  In addition, the spare engine was not as  advertised either.  
It had been cannibalized for parts and had not been  recently rebuilt.  I 
told the guy that to be rebuilt, the engine had to be  dismantled.  All of 
the bolts, nuts and screws still had road grime, dried  dirty oil, etc. on 
them.  It was obvious that they had not been recently  touched by tools.  I did 
not complete the deal.
 
Weeks later, I was contacted by eBay.  They had contacted  the seller for 
payment of their fees and he told them I had refused to pay for  the vehicle 
for some reason unknown to him.  I wrote back to them a very  detailed 
description of the vehicle and compared it to his description.   They did not 
bother me again and the seller's ID was blocked.  My bottom  line is that I 
will not pay for a vehicle sight-unseen.  Obviously, I will  check it out 
myself if it is relatively local but if it isn't local, I might pay  for it if I 
can get someone I trust to check it out for me.  Often, the  sellers on eBay 
will state that payment must be received very soon after the  auction 
closes.  If you can't inspect the vehicle before you bid, make sure  you send a 
message asking the seller if he approves that you will not pay until  after 
your inspection.  Do not do this on the phone; do it through a  written 
message through eBay.  Be wary if he doesn't agree.  If things  fall through, 
eBay only has your word for a verbal agreement.  Also, bring  a camera in case 
you need to document any discrepancies from the auction's  description.  
Also, document the details of any phone conversation with the  seller.  Again, 
this should be done through eBay's system.  Keep  in mind that any up front 
payment you make will be a PITA to get back even  though eBay/PayPal has a 
process for this.  Generally, if there is any  doubt about your claims, they 
will probably side with the seller.
 
Given that cars are often poorly described for whatever  reasons, here are 
a few suggestions if you must pre qualify a car before  taking a trip for 
inspection.
 
1.  If it is important to have a numbers matching  vehicle, make sure the 
seller verifies that engine, VIN, etc. numbers  match.  Keep in mind that 
"numbers matching" means very different things to  different people and on 
different vehicles.  For a Corvair, it is usually  limited to the title and the 
VIN plate.  For a Corvette and certain other  cars, it can get truly insane. 
 Ask if the VIN plate is in its original  position and if the rivets are 
factory.  Obviously, you may need to  describe the locations of the numbers, 
what original rivets look like,  etc.  
 
2.  Get pictures of the vehicle if they aren't already  shown online.  Ask 
for additional close up pics of known problem areas such  as around the 
windshield, bottom of doors, etc.
 
3.  Don't assume.  Ask the obvious.  Does the  owner have the title in his 
possession?  You would be surprised how many  people have lost their titles 
or never had them.  Sometimes they don't even  know they lost the title 
until you have come to an agreement.  It is a PITA  to get the paperwork when 
the seller has your money and isn't motivated to  help.  If there are spare 
parts with the deal, what are they and what is  their condition?  You could 
have a treasure trove of parts, engines, etc.  that is worth more than the car 
and the seller doesn't know it.  Even if  the engine runs strong, are there 
unusual noises.  On that subject, the  seller might say that the engine 
runs great but doesn't even think to mention  that it ran great when parked 
seven years ago.  Some people don't know that  down time can cause problems 
other than a dead battery.  Are the tires  inflated or flat and how old are 
they?  You don't want a blowout on the way  home due to 15 year old, weathered 
tires.  Do the radio, wipers, heater  fan, gauges, etc. work?  Does the 
engine leak oil?  Does the engine  burn oil?  Does the trans shift smoothly or 
grind/slip?
 
4.  Ask him to do the hard/harder test on the  brakes.
 
5.  What do the floorboards look like from under the car,  not from over 
the carpet?
 
6. Do the latches, locks and window winders work easily?   Keep in mind 
that many of us get used to minor problems with our cars and get  around them 
without thinking about it.  These "minor" problems can be  expensive to fix 
if you don't want to live with them like the present owner  does.
 
7.  This list is off the top of my head and is  incomplete.  Some of you 
other members may want to add to this list for  everyone's benefit.
 
Regards,
 
Doc
 
1960 Corvette, 1961 Rampside, 1962 Rampside, 1964 Spyder  coupe, 1965 
Greenbrier, 1966 Canadian Corsa turbo coupe, 1967 Nova SS, 1968  Camaro ragtop