<VV> RE' accel oil

[djtcz at comcast.net]

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From: Tony Underwood <tony.underwood at cox.net> 
Subject: Re: <VV> accel oil 

It's worth mentioning that some older cars absolutely live longer 
with nondetergent oil because they don't have oil filters. They 
depended on a deep sump to allow debris, soot, contaminants, or 
particulates to settle to the bottom so they could be drained when 
oil was changed. 

People forget those times... ;) 

And yes, it's been shown that detergent oils in these cars with 
original engines with no filters do indeed tend to cause more wear 
than nondetergent oils. Lucas makes a high quality nondetergent 
engine oil specifically for vintage cars that don't have filters and 
savvy vintage car owners do indeed use it. 

tony.. 

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Hi Tony, 


Do you recall which LUCAS product is non-detergent? I searched their website a bit and did not find it. 


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I don't think filter/no filter is a safe indicator of oil requirement. 


1 - Lots of brand new lawnmowers etc don't have oil filters, yet specify modern multi-viscosity "high detergent" oils. 



2 - Before 1960-something Studebaker offered a bypass filter only as an option. My dad's 1960 LARK did not have a filter. 


The 1951 Studebaker owners manual comments on "higher priced oils sold today" containing detergents that hold stuff in suspension. Their only admonition is that when using those oils, oil changes should be based on mileage, and not color or appearance... "As long as the oil retains a 'slick' quality and good body it is generally satisfactory." 


Did that 1951 advice permitting detergent oils result in an epidemic of failures in filterless engines from 1952 onward? Probably not, since t his is what the 1959-64 Studebaker shop manual says regarding oil choice. 
"Oils which are marked "For service MS" are intended for use in cars which are subjected to the start and top, short run type of operation so often encountered in urban areas and/or high temperature, high load, or sustained high speed operation. We recommend oils from containers labeled "for Service MS" alone, or in combinations with any of the following: MM, ML, DG" 
It also repeats the "As long as the oil retains a 'slick' quality and good body it is generally satisfactory." 
MS oils had a significant additive package including "detergents." They were roughly better than SC in the modern rating. 


3 - Along with the "detergent" packages come useful anti-wear, anti-foaming and anti-corrosion additives. 
Its; pretty well documented that During development both Studebaker and Chrysler V8s in the very early 50s had cam and lifter wear problems. The eventual release of those engines for production depended on development of oil additives with special anti-wear additives. (ZDDP for example). 


In my filterless 1960 Studebaker Hawk I'm using modern 10W-30 with a dose of STP for its ZDDP. 


Dan T