<VV> Corvair A/C Question
Eric S. Eberhard
flash at vicsmba.com
Wed Jun 22 15:09:09 EDT 2011
I love it! Great sarcasm and make the point. That is why there is a
growing trend to find and preserve original un restored cars versus
over restored ones. That is what made the Monza wagon I sold so
special. But then, everyone has different tastes. If someone wants
a trailer queen that is way over restored and they enjoy it, good for
them. If someone wants a radically modified and modernized car, good
for them too. If someone wants a mostly original with practical
updates only, good for them too. I have one modified and one mostly
original. I sold my trailer queen and the original wagon. All had
their separate joys. But, as more and more "non-Corvair" people dip
into the community, prices will continue to climb and over
restoration will continue to grow -- often with extreme silliness AND
gross mistakes. Eric
At 03:30 PM 12/14/2010, you wrote:
>An oldie worth repeating:
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: virtualvairs-bounces at corvair.org On Behalf Of Les Honke
>Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 4:10 PM
>To: virtualvairs at corvair.org; corvairs at cybrus.net
>Subject: <VV> "Numbers Matching"
>
>Apparently, that's not all there is to restoration....
>
>"Boy, it really galls my threads when these ignoramuses go off about how the
>Corvair crowd is 'over-restoring' cars! I say, restored means *exactly* as
>the factory did it, no matter what. I spent 95 weeks last year doing an
>accurate and complete ground-up restoration on my '67. And, let me tell
>you, some of those rubber and glass pieces are *really* hard to restore
>after grinding them up!
>
>For some folks, simply applying a bit of overspray while painting is 'good
>enough.' I scoff at this. I meticulously copied onto the mufflers, droplet
>by droplet, the exact overspray pattern that was there originally. Even the
>runs and sags at the bottom of the door panels were duplicated. Your average
>'restorer' will just slap some new paint on, calling it 'original' if it is
>the same color. Jeeez. I chemically removed every vestige of *the original
>paint*, then broke it down, reformulated it, and re-applied it. Sure, I had
>to use substitute volatile carrier (thinner), but since it evaporates
>anyway, I claim that it was not originally 'on the car' when it left the
>factory gates.
>
>Some folks think using the 'correct' fasteners is good enough. Ha! I made
>sure to cross-thread the left rear upper transmission crossmember bolt, just
>as the (sometimes inebriated) factory worker was known to. I removed the
>third from the right lower grille attachment screw, which a previous owner
>had erroneously installed, in spite of the well-documented fact that none of
>these were installed at the factory until after 3:43 pm on October 17th,
>1966. I made sure to scratch the frame in the appropriate places, just as
>the handling mechanisms at the factory did. Some previous owner had removed
>the scratches, in an effort to make the car 'perfect.' What was he thinking?
>I even installed the #3 cylinder's exhaust lifter upside down, which was a
>rare (1 of 3 such built), but documented occurrence. Sure, it runs like
>hell, but hey, it's _original_!
>
>Some folks get a new set of tires that LOOK like the originals, and call
>that good enough. Not me. I got THE ORIGINAL tires out of a landfill, ground
>them up, and restored them. I was able to find about 91.7% of the rubber
>which had worn off, by vacuuming the roadside dust over the roads the car
>had travelled, and separating out the correct molecules from the other
>debris with a mass-spectrographic double-diathermic isopropadiaphanometer
>molecular identifier. NOT cheap, let me tell you.
>But, correct is correct. Some folks put on new valve stems and caps, and
>away they go. We purists know that it IS important to align the seam line on
>the valve cap to the correct angle, just as it left the factory ('indexed'
>valve caps, Section T-26-B.5 of the Official Sniveler's Guide to CORRECT
>Corvair Assembly).
>
>Changing the oil is considered routine by some 'restorers'. They throw out
>the old, slap in some new, maybe even 'improved' oil, and a new filter. Not
>a real purist. I have the original oil broken down and re-refined. The old
>additives are removed, restructured, and re- added.
>I even recover as many molecules of the burned or dripped oil as possible,
>and add them back in. This means the filter must be dismantled, which ruins
>the case, so it has to be remelted and reformed into a filter. Re-using the
>original paint, of course.
>
>Some bozos throw in a Sears Die-Hard, and off they go. Some so- called
>restorers buy a reproduction 'tar-top' battery, and call THAT good enough
>(*scoff*). I found my original battery and remanufactured it. No wimpy
>replacing the innards with new, either. I melted down the original plates,
>then recast them in the correct factory molds. Saving the original
>electrolyte, of course. Now, you might think, gee, that seems pretty
>far-fetched, this guy is extreme. Well, you ain't seen nothing yet. I also
>was able to procure the original ELECTRONS which had come with the car, and
>reinstall them. It seems that over the years, the car had given and recieved
>a few jump starts, and some of the original electrons had thus transferred
>to other vehicles, and some from other cars had contaminated my car.
>Thankfully, there is an electron sorting and ID accessory for the molecular
>identifier, which allowed me to correct this blatant slap to _true_
>originality.
>
>One thing holds me back from being 100% correct. Some fool of a previous
>owner had changed the tires, and did not retain the original air. I know,
>hard to believe, but it happened- some folks just don't 'get it.'
>Now, I have located about 24.6% of the original air molecules with the
>Mass-Spectragraphic double diathermic isopropa diaphanometer, but many of
>them have been sucked into other engines, combusted, and turned into CO,
>CO2, NOx, etc. If anyone is aware of a device to spot the correct air
>molecules after they have been broken up and combined in other chemicals,
>please let me know. I guess I COULD settle for some air molecules from the
>Willow Run tire-mounting area vicinity, captured about 9:47 am on September
>5th, 1966. Ah, well, it's only a few points off at showtime..."
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: virtualvairs-bounces at corvair.org
>[mailto:virtualvairs-bounces at corvair.org] On Behalf Of Eric S. Eberhard
>Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 4:37 PM
>To: BBRT
>Cc: virtualvairs at corvair.org
>Subject: Re: <VV> Corvair A/C Question
>
>Depends on the year and model and factory ... Jeeps were completely
>coated in something called cosmoline, plastic was likely around the
>seats despite driving them off, and dealer prep usually included
>removing a bunch of things from the cars that were there for shipping
>(or not there). Most certainly did not have radials. Almost 100% of
>all cars and at least ONE dealer option -- as this was the common way
>to do options then. I bet people now prefer modern oil and
>grease. And where exactly would you get that leaded gasoline that
>they used to drive them off the truck? Paper mats on the
>floor? Paint that contained lead in it? Where exactly do you find
>that these days?
>
>I was not trying to be specific about what was or was not on a
>Corvair from each and every factory and model and year -- I was
>pointing out that there is actually no such thing as a car just like
>it was from the factory. I was making a point, and used generic
>examples. I am sure others can find all kinds of other ones. In
>fact one could be silly -- does your factory car have exactly the
>same amount of gas in the tank as it left the factory (or do they put
>that in outside the factory, and how does that then count? -- in
>other words, it came out of the factory w/out gassed, and they were
>gassed for shipment -- that is what I heard -- of course it may have
>been on the property of the factory and not in the building so some
>would say the gasoline is factory and some would not). Another point
>I am making in case I am being too subtle is that this whole subject
>gets VERY silly at times.
>
>One that really grinds me are the people that over-restore to the
>point that the body panels line up as if done in a modern factory
>using laser equipment. I doubt many Corvairs ever had panel
>alignment like that! Also, they use base coat/clear coat and make
>the paint so much nicer than factory. And powder coat all kinds of
>things that were never powder coated. Pretty in their own way, just
>not "factory" despite them entering them in competitions as factory.
>
>So -- just enjoy your car. If something is not factory or you are
>not sure, does it really change how your car drives and handles? I
>rescued a gelding Thoroughbred race horse ... and for $600.00 I could
>get the genuine Jockey Club certified papers ... but I suspect he
>rides just the same without them :-) so I never bothered.
>
>E
>
>At 01:16 PM 12/14/2010, you wrote:
> >Eric,
> >
> >They weren't wrapped in plastic and did have oil and gasoline..ever
> >see them drive off the truck bringing them to the dealer? No goopy
> >stuff, either.
> >
> >Chuck S
> >----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric S. Eberhard" <flash at vicsmba.com>
> >To: <virtualvairs at corvair.org>; <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
> >Cc: <Sethracer at aol.com>
> >Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 2:51 PM
> >Subject: <VV> Corvair A/C Question
> >
> >
> >>Trying to unequivocally state what came from the factory and exactly
> >>how everything was is a futile exercise. There were variations
> >>between factories, workers, dealers, and customers. I have a 62 A/C
> >>Coupe originally sold in Bakersfield, CA. I have the original
> >>customer's invoice/sticker in terrible shape ... which specifies
> >>non-tinted windows. So not all A/C cars had tinted windows. You can
> >>never tell customer taste and I have no idea how the dealer achieved
> >>it. Perhaps the dealer changed the windows or added the A/C, but A/C
> >>is listed in the factory option section, the non-tinted windows
> >>listed in the car description. But, I bet the dealer made this
> >>document so who knows (or cares) -- my car certainly was sold from
> >>the dealer with A/C.
> >>
> >>Just for the record nobody has (or wants) a car just like it left the
> >>factory. Forget about bias ply tires, points, etc -- from the
> >>factory it was wrapped in plastic, had no gas, no oil, had goopy
> >>stuff to protect it ... it would seem a more correct standard would
> >>be to restore a car to how it left the dealer with some wriggle room
> >>for safety. That is what I do anyway.
> >>
> >>I had a 74 BMW 3.0 CSL that was equipped in a way that everyone said
> >>was not correct. This caused me trouble trying to sell it. Then a
> >>kind person sent me a period magazine article. It showed pictures of
> >>their test car equipped exactly like mine -- to a "T" -- and in the
> >>article the explained that their's was an "export" version and hence
> >>was equipped with variations from the home market version. And my
> >>car was correct despite 25 experts that said otherwise!
> >>
> >>E
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>At 06:45 PM 12/13/2010, virtualvairs-request at corvair.org wrote:
> >>>Message: 2
> >>>Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 16:37:34 EST
> >>>From: Sethracer at aol.com
> >>>Subject: Re: <VV> Corvair A/C Question
> >>>To: brent.fullard at rogers.com, virtualvairs at corvair.org
> >>>Message-ID: <3a579.43d33709.3a37ec1e at aol.com>
> >>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>In a message dated 12/13/2010 12:36:44 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> >>>brent.fullard at rogers.com writes:
> >>>
> >>>Re: " The factory cut the openings with a cutting torch "
> >>>
> >>>Are you sure about that? This picture from Kent Sullivan's website of a
> >>>donor car with factory A/C sure doesn't look like torch cut openings to
>me,
> >>>and more like stamped openings:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>The factory was working with an empty car body - no interior installed.
> >>>Cutting it with a torch was easy and quick. The dealer had to work within
>a
> >>>complete car, carpeting - at least some, wiring, and a painted
> >>>dash panel. He
> >>> could not use a torch. Unless you bought the car new, and watched it
>come
> >>>off the truck, it is hard to tell the difference between a proper dealer
> >>>installed A/C and the factory. (That is providing that the other common
> >>>options like tinted glass are installed.)
> >>>
> >>>- Seth Emerson
> >>
> >>
> >>Eric S. Eberhard
> >>(928) 567-3727 Voice
> >>(928) 567-6122 Fax
> >>(928) 301-7537 Cell
> >>
> >>Vertical Integrated Computer Systems, LLC
> >>Metropolis Support, LLC
> >>
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> >>
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> >>
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> >>
> >>
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>
>
>Eric S. Eberhard
>(928) 567-3727 Voice
>(928) 567-6122 Fax
>(928) 301-7537 Cell
>
>Vertical Integrated Computer Systems, LLC
>Metropolis Support, LLC
>
>For Metropolis support and VICS MBA Support!!!! http://www.vicsmba.com
>
>Fun personal pictures: Includes horses, dogs, Corvairs, and
>more. http://www.vicsmba.com/ourpics/index.html
>
>However, most new pictures are on Facebook.
>
>
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>This message was sent by the VirtualVairs mailing list, all copyrights are
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>This list sponsored by the Corvair Society of America,
>http://www.corvair.org/
>Post messages to: VirtualVairs at corvair.org
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> _______________________________________________
Eric S. Eberhard
(928) 567-3727 Voice
(928) 567-6122 Fax
(928) 301-7537 Cell
Vertical Integrated Computer Systems, LLC
Metropolis Support, LLC
For Metropolis support and VICS MBA Support!!!! http://www.vicsmba.com
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