<VV> How was the VIN assigned/attached on 69s?

[Dave Newell]

Hi,
Thanks for copying me, Bill...I'm glad to help. You guys are on the right track, but you have to understand how Fisher and Chevrolet worked together (or didn't work!) in those days.

Fisher was essentially a captive supplier to the car divisions. The Chevrolet side of an assembly plant would order a body from the Fisher side, specifying the model, color and options (only the ones which concerned Fisher though) so they could build a specific car that a dealer had ordered. Yes, of course, Fisher put on their body plates with their own body numbers before anything was even painted. The sequence of those body numbers on Fisher's line didn't concern them much, especially since bodies were routinely shunted off for repairs or special operations like the convertible top installation. And the body numbers were only in sequence within a particular model. What mattered was when Chevy received the body.

Fisher never knew what the the VIN would be when they sent the finished body over to Chevrolet. When the bodies arrived at Chevrolet (remember, the two plants were physically separated) they went into a "body bank" area that could hold over 200 cars, hanging on clamping cradles. At Willow Run and the other plants there was an office by the exit from the body bank, where each body in its cradle was put on the Chevy line for the first time. The production superintendent in that office (notably Dale Hooker at WR) determined which cars could be built (were the all the parts on hand for rare options, COPO parts etc. and in the right colors?) and could hold back bodies until he was informed the parts were on hand. He also spaced cars with extra operations apart, as with air conditioning, lest the dedicated A/C installers go nuts. Then he assigned the body a VIN, and Chevy did everything possible to keep the cars in numerical order on the line.

And those are some reasons why Fisher body numbers aren't always in order when compared with Chevy VINS.

At that point the build sheets were broadcast by teletype to all the assembly stations throughout the Chevy side, specifying which parts to use for that particular car.

Enter '68 and the the dash mounted VIN tags, which were still installed on the Chevy side, with the windshield already in place. Since the instrument cluster, light & wiper switches, dash harness etc. weren't yet installed (they were Chevy's responsibility), there was enough room to use a fixture and put the tags on. The rivet holes, of course, had already been punched at Fisher when the sheet metal was stamped at one of their plants.

This is greatly simplified, but hopefully will give you some insight. 

Dave

---------- Original Message ----------
From: <kaczmarek at charter.net>
To: BobHelt at aol.com, virtualvairs at corvair.org, whubbell at umich.edu,  dave at arborlea.com
Cc: William Hubbell <whubbell at verizon.net>, Dave Newell <chevrobilia at juno.com>
Subject: Re: <VV> How was the VIN assigned/attached on 69s?
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 14:14:07 -0400

Bill is right on this one.  Still happens today. 
I watched a program watching the new Camaro bodys being assembled in Canada.  Any body coming through for paint had to pass inspection for metal flaws, bad welds, etc.  If a body needed some grinding on a weld or panel before paint prep was pulled off the line, and the next body went through. 

VIN tags would have had to be put on before the W/S was installed of course.  But it's pretty evident that the Fisher Body tags were put on at Fisher, and the VIN plate was put on at Willow Run or LA. 

Hank 
---- William Hubbell <whubbell at verizon.net> wrote: 
> Bob,
> 
> The VIN was absolutely added by Chevrolet and NOT by Fisher.  This is evident by the simple fact that the Fisher Body tag number order is not in perfect agreement with the VIN numbers.  Sometimes a body would be held up in the Willow Run plant (Chevrolet side) and a later body would get through the line first, thus having a lower VIN but higher Fisher Body number.
> 
> I know this has been discussed somewhere before.  My guess is that Dave Newell can enlighten us, so I am copying him on this thread.
> 
> Bill Hubbell
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BobHelt at aol.com
> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 1:14 PM
> To: dave at arborlea.com; virtualvairs at corvair.org
> Subject: Re: <VV> How was the VIN assigned/attached on 69s?
> 
> Thanks, Dave,
> Something just doesn't ring true tho. Logic would certainly tell us that the VIN went on before the windshield. Besides the VIN would certainly have been determined and known by Fisher. There was no option information or other details  in the VIN which contained just body information. It had to be installed before  the windshield went on, wouldn't it? What could have been a
> reason for adding the VIN during, or after, final assembly?  
> Regards,
> Bob Helt
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Leonard
> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 12:59 AM
> To: BobHelt at aol.com; virtualvairs at corvair.org
> Subject: Re: <VV> How was the VIN assigned/attached on 69s?
> 
> I've read in several places that final assembly assigned VINs, not Fisher.
> These are a few references I could quickly locate:
> 
> >From a Sixty-Niner newsletter: "#6000 at Fisher Body Shown with Fisher Body Manager Bob Bates in May, 1969, the completed body for #6000 is ready to transfer over to Chevrolet for fInal assembly. Note just how complete the body really is. Windshield, wheel well trim, door handles, side market lights, Monza emblem, etc. are already installed. There's even a key in the door lock! (Picture courtesy Dave Newell from his personal collection)"
> 
> In Finger Tip Facts, Dave writes, "Fisher was responsible for all body construction, assembly and paint. As delivered to Chevrolet, the bodies were surprisingly complete, With upholstery, glass, carpeting and most emblems and moldings already installed. It's easy to tell how the body appeared when it arrived at Chevrolet by studying the '69 assembly manual available from
> vendors. Any body-related operations not shown or listed in the manual were performed by Fisher Body." 
> 
> And from Mark Ellis transcript of a presentation at a convention: "The bodies would then pass over to the Chevy side of the plant to a staging area. When the scheduling department determined they had all the parts necessary to build a particular car, the body was given a serial ( VIN) number and headed down ,the final Chevy assembly line." 
> 
> Dave
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BobHelt at aol.com [mailto:BobHelt at aol.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 11:42 PM
> To: dave at arborlea.com; virtualvairs at corvair.org
> Subject: Re: <VV> How was the VIN assigned/attached on 69s? 
> 
> In a message dated 9/30/2010 6:00:04 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, dave at arborlea.com writes:
> 
> All documentation states the VIN was assigned in final assembly, not at Fischer Body.
> 
> Dave,
> 
> What documentation states this? Where are you getting your information from? 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Bob Helt
> 
> 
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