<VV> [Corsabod] "Improved" Concours class

Tue May 4 22:48:54 EDT 2010

The past 2 concours chairs, Ray Fallott and Bob Norwalk ,are members of the current concours committee. The 2 before that, Mike  Harrison and Ceceil Miller, have passed. I don't remember who chaired concours before Cecil. Both Ray and Bob have much input to the committee. All concours rules changes have to be voted by the BOD, the committee can't change rules without their approval.
I do agree that the only classes needed are factory stock and factory stock restored. The concours scoring system now judges only the car on its own merits for either a gold, silver or bronze award.
Some improvements have been made in concours over the 20 years or so I have been involved. The above  mentioned awards and time limits(5 minutes per section per car) are the 2 most important. Other wise, the rules are pretty much the same as Mark and the committee set up many years ago. So it was a good job Mark.
Bill Pierson
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Corbin <airvair at earthlink.net>
To: Bob Dunahugh <yenko108 at hotmail.com>; daluckow at aol.com; corsabod at corvair.org
Cc: Virtaul Vairs <virtualvairs at corvair.org>; chapters at corvair.org; hljensen at comcast.net; Harry Jensen CORSA Executive Secretary <corsa at corvair.org>; whubbell at umich.edu
Sent: Tue, May 4, 2010 9:10:24 AM
Subject: Re: <VV> [Corsabod] "Improved" Concours class

(Shortened and resubmitted to VV)

Bob and all,

It occurred to me late last night that we seem to have little use for experience. Just WHERE are the past National Concours Chairmen, and why aren't they ever consulted on anything? In Masonry, we honor Past Masters of the Lodges, and rely heavily on them for their experience and expertise. It occurs to me that we don't do that kind of thing in CORSA.

So I'd like to propose the following amendment to the Concours rules:

"The National Concours Committee will also include ALL past National Concours Chairmen as permanent members, with the full rights of members of that committee. They will also retain the right to propose any amendments to the rules, after consulting with the current Chairman; and collectively as a group have the right to veto any proposed amendments made by anyone outside of their group of Past National Concours Chairmen."

By amending the Concours rules accordingly, we will be relying on the expertise of past Concours Chairmen to approve any changes to the concours rules. We will keep them in the loop and always have their experience from which to draw upon. After all, who knows better than somebody who has been in that hot seat?

-Mark

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Bob Dunahugh 
Subject: RE: [Corsabod] "Improved" Concours class

Mark, As a Corsa board member, I'm interested in anything involving Corsa. All dialog is good , but it must go threw the proper channels. Corsa has a very capable concours committee that can revue any input.  You, Bill, and Harry all have good points and should be lessoned to. It's all a work in progress. As for Harry, he is an employee of Corsa, but he is also a member of the concours committee, and a Corsa member. Corsa is a vary divers group and this is our strong suit. We all love this strange little car. I'm vary aware of the time and money we all put in our cars no matter what our interest. I know of one person that just spent about $8000 on his performance motor and that's on the bench. I know of a Yenko that has over $45,000 invested and it was a rust free car to start with. I was not aware of your involvement in concours. We can always us help.  Bob

From: airvair at earthlink.net
Subject: [Corsabod] "Improved" Concours class

All,

First let me inform/remind everyone of my credentials concerning concours. I first entered concours at the first CORSA convention in 1971, and have been active in concours, either showing, displaying, judging, or administering concours and concours rules ever since. I was CORSA National Concours Committee Chairman for five years, on the committee for more years than that, and even wrote the original CORSA concours rules and its first revision, rules that are (in modified form) still in use today. I am a Certified Master CORSA Concours judge, and Master Specialist, to name a few recognitions. Thus my credentials speak for themselves.

In the early days of CORSA Concours, Woody Schwartz (another long-term CORSA Concours Committee Chairman) and I talked in length about naming one of the classes "Improved". For very good reasons, and based on considerable experience, he advised against using that term. He had observed firsthand how touchy concours people (and especially stock class owners) are with details, such as the names of classes. My experience concurs with his.

To put it precisely, the Corvair needs no "improvement" from its factory-issued condition. It is, from the viewpoint of a stock vehicle owner, perfect as is. That doesn't mean that it can't be further "improved", depending on how one views changes. But stock vehicle owners will rightfully be offended by the usage of that term. And, trust me, there is nobody more high-strung than concours people. After all, with the money and "labor of love" efforts they put forth with their vehicles, they have every right to be.

Neither anyone in the CORSA management office, the present members of the Concours committee, nor for that matter anyone on the CORSA board can't even get within spitting distance of someone with my, or Woody's, credentials. So when I say that Harry and the committee are flat out WRONG, wrong, wrong on this matter, I am speaking from my considerable experience and knowledge of concours. It is not a frivolous opinion from the peanut gallery.

Concours rules, even so "small" a change as this, deserve long, well-thought-out deliberations before such changes are made. Concours rules MUST be guided by and follow a well-though-out philosophy in order to be successful. The success of the judgements I made in the writing of the initial rules is born out in their continued longevity. Simply put, Concours rules changes are nothing to be taken lightly, and this change has all the earmarks of being ill-conceived, rushed, and frivolously made. Bill Hubbell is absolutely right, and just the tip of the iceberg.

-Mark Corbin
Treasurer, Stock Corvair Group
President, Air 'Vair Group
perenial Concours judge
_______________________________________________
This message was sent by the VirtualVairs mailing list, all copyrights are the property
of the writer, please attribute properly. For help, mailto:vv-help at corvair.org
This list sponsored by the Corvair Society of America, http://www.corvair.org/
Post messages to: VirtualVairs at corvair.org
Change your options: http://www.vv.corvair.org/mailman/options/virtualvairs 
_______________________________________________