<VV> Modern Corvair vs. mundane FWDs

Tue Jan 19 12:08:46 EST 2010

I don't know - going off either side of the road may lead to equally 
disastrous results, but plowing off the outside (understeer) is less 
exciting than spinning out to the inside (oversteer) ?

I've never been able to pull a 360 or even a 180 in a Corvair, but my 
Camaro, that was easy, and both were controllable.

I find FWDs frustrating "under-responsive" and would much prefer the 
over-responsive (call it "twitchy") RE/RWD Corvair or Porsche, etc.

Go to Indy - where do THEY put the engines, despite the "down time" for the 
driver with engine problems ?
Now that would be a place to have "unit assemblies" that were easily and 
quickly transferable, but do they put it all in one place ?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <airvair at earthlink.net>
To: "Charles Lee" <chaz at ProperProPer.com>; <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 6:28 AM
Subject: Re: <VV> Modern Corvair vs. mundane FWDs

> Actually, I consider FWD to be MORE dangerous than rear drive. Consider
> this: on slippery pavement with rear drive, if you break the traction
> wheels loose, you still have some semblence of steering control. With 
> front
> drive, you lose ALL steering control. The car simply slides off whereever
> it's headed. That difference may mean the difference between missing a
> bridge abutment and hitting one.
>
> People praise front drive for the wrong reasons. If the "conventional" car
> was rear engine/front drive, they'd KNOW why front drive is a bad idea. 
> The
> reason people praise front drive is because the engine (the weight) is 
> over
> the drive wheels, and NOT because it's driving the front wheels. Having
> driven Corvairs since they were still being built, I can attest to that
> fact.
>
> Also consider that in racing, if you go too hot into a corner in a rear
> driver, you simply add gas and go thru in a four-wheel drift. In a front
> driver, all you can do is back off the gas to hang the tail out. And as 
> one
> pundit put it, when you back off the gas in racing, you get slower. And
> when you get slower, you lose the race. It's why front drivers generally
> make for lousy race cars, and that most all purebred race cars are rear
> drive.
>
> On the flip side, in autocrossing the Mini was the holy terror of its
> class. My brother ran a BMW 2002 and hated seeing one show up. The Mini
> drivers would put the pedal to the metal and simply steer and pull up on
> the handbrake, walking the inner front tire around the edge of the cones.
> This was especially true on a dirt/gravel track, as the year I won the
> club's year-end award in autocrossing for campaigning my '67 Monza 4door
> (required Corvair content) I saw a Mini do just that. It was enjoyable
> seeing my older brother get a shellacking. LOL
>
> Bottom line is as I've always said: a rear driver is a REAL car, while a
> front driver is a major appliance.
>
> And as far as modern cars being mundane, like Gordon Buhrig (the stylist 
> of
> the coffin-nose Cord) said about it, "aerodynamics makes for lousy 
> styling."
>
> BTW, the reason the Corvair still has a "stygma" from Nader about it is
> because we can't get the media off mentioning him every time there is a
> story about US and./or the Corvair. I've said it before, and I'll say it
> again, we HAVE to emphasize to the media that he's old news (about 35 
> years
> too stale, BTW), that the REAL story is about the Corvair and us in the
> here and now. Refuse to talk to reporters if they are going to mention 
> him,
> write scathing letters to the editor every time such a mention happens,
> etc.  Let's all band together and make THAT happen!
>
> -Mark
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Charles Lee <Chaz at ProperProPer.com>
>> Subject: Re: <VV> Modern Corvair vs. mundane FWDs
>>
>> Good point about the FWD domination today !
>>
>> The Corvair's problem was that was alone and distinct which made it an
> easy target.
>>
>> When FWDs started in the US, it was the expensive Eldorado and Toronado,
> but they didn't really succeed because they were different with no real
> advantage.
>>
>> So-o-o-o, "they" decided to inundate us with FWDs so (a) we wouldn't have
> a choice, and (b) we'd eventually get used to them and (c) most people
> don't know the difference anyway.
>>
>> >From a handling perspective, FWD is "safer" due to its understeer, which
> means people don't get in trouble as fast.  (Sure now they go off the
> outside of a curved road instead, but even that is less startling since
> FWDs are hard to spin out, which is what makes driving so much fun.
>>
>> (By "spin out" I mean 180s and 360s, not STOP : "Squeal Tires On
> Pavement")
>>
>> Corvairs are harder to spin out that FE/RWD cars, but FWDs are nearly
> impossible, which I think makes them "safer"
>>
>> Mechanics love them too, because all the expensive stuff is up front
> taking the impact of pot holes, etc with complex CVJs and steering ear in 
> a
> very vulnerable position, so lots of $$ to be made fixing them !
>>
>> I think FWD is what makes all new cars so mundane, IMHO.
>>
>> Charlie;
>>
>>   -----Original Message-----
>>   From: Charles Lee <Chaz at ProperProPer.com>
>>   Subject: Re: <VV> Modern Corvair
>>
>> Maybe if the Chevy "Volt" was rear-engined with advanced suspension and
> low
>> center of gravity, plus the styling of the Corvair, now THAT would be a
>> winner !
>>
>> However, I think GM proved they are NOT up to the challenge of a "new
>> Corvair" as advanced as the Corvair was then, by the actions they took
> then.
>>
>> Unfortunately, the Corvair, as great a car as it was (and is), still has 
>> a
>> stigma as a result of GM's inability to take a stance against Nadir
> (sic),
>> as VW
>> did when Nadir went after them !
>>
>> Still it would be a cool idea to have a contest of some kind, to see what
>> the Corvair might have been ?
>>
>> Charlie
>
>
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