<VV> protecting Corvair worth

[airvair at earthlink.net]

To each his own. With Corvettes, maybe it's possible to trace every screw
on the car. I don't know, or care. On Corvairs, as you point out, only SOME
accessories are tracable, and that depends on whether the body tag is
original (and as I pointed out, even they can be reproduced.)

But I still question the wisdom of the "factory-only" ideology, for reasons
already pointed out. Some people will pay extra for such cars, but others
won't. I personally don't see the overall advantage, and see plenty of
disadvantages in it. All I'm saying is what I see, and if some people
understand it and buy into it, that's fine. If they don't, and still cling
to their "factory-only" ideology, that's fine too.

But I still question that mentality. Just my opinion, though.

-Mark

> [Original Message]
> From: Eric S. Eberhard <flash at vicsmba.com>
> Subject: RE: <VV> protecting Corvair worth
>
> Like I said, I mostly agree.  However, when I went to sell my Spyder 
> -- which sold for 2-3 times more than anyone in Corsa thought it 
> would sell for -- I was asked over and over by prospects if it was a 
> "numbers matching" car -- this was very important to the 
> prospects.  I had to explain that Corvairs have no such concept, all 
> you can do is check the date of mfg of the numbered parts and be 
> certain they fall in the same time period.  Which they did on my 
> Spyder.  They would ask if it it was "all original" and I would have 
> to explain about radial tires, Pertronix, and dealer options, and the 
> limited knowledge of factory options -- all of which were correct on 
> my Spyder.  The end result is that I got a lot more money for the car 
> due to it's originality.
>
> In the Vette world the part's car would be "rebuilt" so that it had 
> the original numbers matching parts and that radio -- provided you 
> had all the right paperwork to be worth doing that.  No matter that 
> almost every non-numbered part would be a replacement part or 
> otherwise not original.  The value of the car would make such a 
> restoration worth it.  Not so with Corvairs.  But, as times change, 
> more original cars are going to be worth more.  We may not like it, 
> nor like the higher prices (and I got a lot of hate mail about the 
> price I sold the Spyder for) -- but that is reality.
>
> In the case of your radio, of course I would save it.  Likely I'd 
> pull the wiring harness and mate it seamlessly ... but each person 
> has to make their own choice.  It is kind of fun to try and stay 
> original.  I don't do it for snobbery, it is actually fun.  Getting 
> just the right color oil filter, just the right ... well, you know!
>
> Eric
>
> At 01:06 PM 2/26/2010, you wrote:
> >I'm sure everyone has some kind of opinion on this subject. Here's my
take
> >on it.
> >
> >First, Corvettes benefit from having the (in)famous gas tank sheet, which
> >tells what the car had on it from the factory. They also have (as I
> >understand) other information sources, all of which makes most Corvettes
> >easy to tell what an individual car had from the factory.
> >
> >By contrast, all the factory records on US-destined Corvairs are gone.
The
> >only thing even resembling a list of options is the body tag info, which
> >Kent Sullivan and others have been working on for years. Even then, the
> >'68-9 cars don't have that info on them. Add to this the fact that you
can
> >get new body tags made to order via vendors who regularly advertise in
> >places like Hemmings. The net result is that only partial information is
> >decipherable, and even then, that isn't a sure thing. This is one reason
> >why I (and most of the Corvair world) don't get off on this kind of
thing.
> >
> >Second, consider this. What if you had a strictly parts car with a
> >super-rare option. For an example, I'm going to use my own '67 Monza
4door
> >and the stereo tape system. There were only 125 cars built with this
> >option, just about the rarest option for that year. I have two identical
> >cars, one a parts car (actually my project car, but that's a long story
in
> >itself) and the other a very original, low miles car. The parts car has
the
> >tape player in it, the original doesn't. I can do one of three things:
> >
> >Senerio 1) Scrap the parts car WITH the tape player, because  there are
> >simply no other cars around that need their tape players replaced or
> >upgraded. Thus the tape system is junk.
> >
> >Senerio 2) Salvage the tape system, and sit it on the shelf, but for the
> >same reasons as #1.
> >
> >Senerio 3) Install it in my original car, in the same manner (as best I
can
> >duplicate) as the factory did.
> >
> >Note that in #1 not only is the tape player system is lost, but the
method
> >of installation AND its usage as a functioning 3-D example of this system
> >is lost as well.
> >
> >In #2, the system is saved, only to become a dust collector on a shelf.
The
> >method of installation and its usage is still lost.
> >
> >Only in #3 is not only the system saved, but also its installation AND
> >usage as well.
> >
> >Now consider who is really preserving automotive history. The Corvette
guy,
> >who can only do #1 or #2, or me, who does #3.
> >
> >To me, it's obvious. The first two actually DESTROY history. So THAT is
why
> >I chose to do #3 on my original car. It and the parts car have the same
> >interior color and body style, so I was able to move the speakers and
rear
> >riser without even applying a single drop of paint. I will point out that
> >even though my car has the original window sticker still on it, I have
> >salvaged the tape system BECAUSE it's a super-rare option, and it is as
the
> >factory would have done. The car is, in my words, an "enhanced original,"
> >preserving not only the original car, but also some very original and
RARE
> >options. History is preserved!
> >
> >Corvette- type people who hold the "factory-only" ideology are, in the
long
> >run, actually doing more harm than good, and not getting the full
enjoyment
> >from their vehicles in the bargain. In my opinion they have missed the
boat.
> >
> >-Mark
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: Eric S. Eberhard <flash at vicsmba.com>
> > > Subject: <VV> protecting Corvair worth, was: arrogance WAS telecolumn
> > >
> > > To some degree I agree with this post very much.  Certainly adding
> > > dealer options only adds to the value.  There is no way to determine
> > > which dealer options came with a car.  Sometimes the car is purchased
> > > with them, sometimes they were added after purchase.  I like the
> > > clocks, tissue dispensers, parking brake alarms, trunk and hood
> > > lights, and gas heaters (dealer option in 62) -- so I put them
> > > in.  As to adding factory options, it is a bit trickier.  A car is
> > > worth more with the original invoice -- and if you have that, it
> > > should stay like that (if protecting value is all you care
> > > about).   If not, then many factory options that cannot be deciphered
> > > from the body plates are pretty much fair game.  Changing color,
> > > putting a different engine, changing from PG to stick, etc. are more
> > > problematic.  I agree that in the Corvair world it has traditionally
> > > not cared much about these things.  But times are changing --
> > > non-Corvair people are spending larger dollars on Corvairs than
> > > people thought possible 10 years ago, and they do look for
> > > originality.  Of course, if you are just enjoying the car for
> > > yourself ... do whatever you like! But it is not snobbery or
> > > arrogance to keep a car stock.  I keep two of mine bone-stock as far
> > > as factory options go. Just an opinion. Eric
> > >
> > > >Subject: Re: <VV> protecting Corvair worth, was: arrogance WAS
> > > >         telecolumn
> > > >
> > > >There is where you are flat out wrong. Adding accessories to a
Corvair
> > > >never hurts the value of it (unless the job is totally botched, of
> >course),
> > > >because the Corvair hobby is not as snooty as that segment of the
> >Corvette
> > > >hobby who insist that a car HAS to be in as-built condition. That
segment
> > > >is where I and virtually all other Corvair owners and enthusiasts
part
> >ways
> > > >with those snobs.
> > > >
> > > >Fact is, adding (factory/dealer-installed) accessories only
INCREASES the
> > > >value of Corvairs. So adding a tele column to a Corvair that didn't
have
> >it
> > > >from the factory adds value to the car.
> > > >
> > > >Second, changing steering columns is not rocket science. It's as
easy as
> > > >unbolting the old and bolting in the new. I've done it many times. No
> > > >safety issues are involved whatsoever, when done with the right
parts.
> >And
> > > >since there is so virtually NO variation in Corvair steering
columns, as
> > > >long as the parts are interchangable, getting the "wrong" part or
> > > >installing something wrong is all but impossible.
> > > >
> > > >The problem is that Corvette people, by buying up Corvair parts, are
> > > >denying Corvair people the ability to upgrade their cars and improve
the
> > > >value of them. And it's not like Corvettes are hurting for the
inability
> >to
> > > >create reproduction  parts. Lord knows, they have far better
abilities
> >for
> > > >getting parts reproduced (spelled MONEY) than we do. So why don't
they
> >just
> > > >let loose of some of their moldy money and get the parts they need
> > > >reproduced, instead of robbing their poorer cousins?
> > > >
> > > >-Mark
> > >
> > > Eric S. Eberhard
> > > (928) 567-3727          Voice
> > > (928) 567-6122          Fax
> > > (928) 301-7537                           Cell
> > >
>
>
> Eric S. Eberhard
> (928) 567-3727          Voice
> (928) 567-6122          Fax
> (928) 301-7537                           Cell
>
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