<VV> Corvair A/C Question
William Hubbell
whubbell at verizon.net
Tue Dec 14 17:30:39 EST 2010
An oldie worth repeating:
-----Original Message-----
From: virtualvairs-bounces at corvair.org On Behalf Of Les Honke
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 4:10 PM
To: virtualvairs at corvair.org; corvairs at cybrus.net
Subject: <VV> "Numbers Matching"
Apparently, that's not all there is to restoration....
"Boy, it really galls my threads when these ignoramuses go off about how the
Corvair crowd is 'over-restoring' cars! I say, restored means *exactly* as
the factory did it, no matter what. I spent 95 weeks last year doing an
accurate and complete ground-up restoration on my '67. And, let me tell
you, some of those rubber and glass pieces are *really* hard to restore
after grinding them up!
For some folks, simply applying a bit of overspray while painting is 'good
enough.' I scoff at this. I meticulously copied onto the mufflers, droplet
by droplet, the exact overspray pattern that was there originally. Even the
runs and sags at the bottom of the door panels were duplicated. Your average
'restorer' will just slap some new paint on, calling it 'original' if it is
the same color. Jeeez. I chemically removed every vestige of *the original
paint*, then broke it down, reformulated it, and re-applied it. Sure, I had
to use substitute volatile carrier (thinner), but since it evaporates
anyway, I claim that it was not originally 'on the car' when it left the
factory gates.
Some folks think using the 'correct' fasteners is good enough. Ha! I made
sure to cross-thread the left rear upper transmission crossmember bolt, just
as the (sometimes inebriated) factory worker was known to. I removed the
third from the right lower grille attachment screw, which a previous owner
had erroneously installed, in spite of the well-documented fact that none of
these were installed at the factory until after 3:43 pm on October 17th,
1966. I made sure to scratch the frame in the appropriate places, just as
the handling mechanisms at the factory did. Some previous owner had removed
the scratches, in an effort to make the car 'perfect.' What was he thinking?
I even installed the #3 cylinder's exhaust lifter upside down, which was a
rare (1 of 3 such built), but documented occurrence. Sure, it runs like
hell, but hey, it's _original_!
Some folks get a new set of tires that LOOK like the originals, and call
that good enough. Not me. I got THE ORIGINAL tires out of a landfill, ground
them up, and restored them. I was able to find about 91.7% of the rubber
which had worn off, by vacuuming the roadside dust over the roads the car
had travelled, and separating out the correct molecules from the other
debris with a mass-spectrographic double-diathermic isopropadiaphanometer
molecular identifier. NOT cheap, let me tell you.
But, correct is correct. Some folks put on new valve stems and caps, and
away they go. We purists know that it IS important to align the seam line on
the valve cap to the correct angle, just as it left the factory ('indexed'
valve caps, Section T-26-B.5 of the Official Sniveler's Guide to CORRECT
Corvair Assembly).
Changing the oil is considered routine by some 'restorers'. They throw out
the old, slap in some new, maybe even 'improved' oil, and a new filter. Not
a real purist. I have the original oil broken down and re-refined. The old
additives are removed, restructured, and re- added.
I even recover as many molecules of the burned or dripped oil as possible,
and add them back in. This means the filter must be dismantled, which ruins
the case, so it has to be remelted and reformed into a filter. Re-using the
original paint, of course.
Some bozos throw in a Sears Die-Hard, and off they go. Some so- called
restorers buy a reproduction 'tar-top' battery, and call THAT good enough
(*scoff*). I found my original battery and remanufactured it. No wimpy
replacing the innards with new, either. I melted down the original plates,
then recast them in the correct factory molds. Saving the original
electrolyte, of course. Now, you might think, gee, that seems pretty
far-fetched, this guy is extreme. Well, you ain't seen nothing yet. I also
was able to procure the original ELECTRONS which had come with the car, and
reinstall them. It seems that over the years, the car had given and recieved
a few jump starts, and some of the original electrons had thus transferred
to other vehicles, and some from other cars had contaminated my car.
Thankfully, there is an electron sorting and ID accessory for the molecular
identifier, which allowed me to correct this blatant slap to _true_
originality.
One thing holds me back from being 100% correct. Some fool of a previous
owner had changed the tires, and did not retain the original air. I know,
hard to believe, but it happened- some folks just don't 'get it.'
Now, I have located about 24.6% of the original air molecules with the
Mass-Spectragraphic double diathermic isopropa diaphanometer, but many of
them have been sucked into other engines, combusted, and turned into CO,
CO2, NOx, etc. If anyone is aware of a device to spot the correct air
molecules after they have been broken up and combined in other chemicals,
please let me know. I guess I COULD settle for some air molecules from the
Willow Run tire-mounting area vicinity, captured about 9:47 am on September
5th, 1966. Ah, well, it's only a few points off at showtime..."
-----Original Message-----
From: virtualvairs-bounces at corvair.org
[mailto:virtualvairs-bounces at corvair.org] On Behalf Of Eric S. Eberhard
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 4:37 PM
To: BBRT
Cc: virtualvairs at corvair.org
Subject: Re: <VV> Corvair A/C Question
Depends on the year and model and factory ... Jeeps were completely
coated in something called cosmoline, plastic was likely around the
seats despite driving them off, and dealer prep usually included
removing a bunch of things from the cars that were there for shipping
(or not there). Most certainly did not have radials. Almost 100% of
all cars and at least ONE dealer option -- as this was the common way
to do options then. I bet people now prefer modern oil and
grease. And where exactly would you get that leaded gasoline that
they used to drive them off the truck? Paper mats on the
floor? Paint that contained lead in it? Where exactly do you find
that these days?
I was not trying to be specific about what was or was not on a
Corvair from each and every factory and model and year -- I was
pointing out that there is actually no such thing as a car just like
it was from the factory. I was making a point, and used generic
examples. I am sure others can find all kinds of other ones. In
fact one could be silly -- does your factory car have exactly the
same amount of gas in the tank as it left the factory (or do they put
that in outside the factory, and how does that then count? -- in
other words, it came out of the factory w/out gassed, and they were
gassed for shipment -- that is what I heard -- of course it may have
been on the property of the factory and not in the building so some
would say the gasoline is factory and some would not). Another point
I am making in case I am being too subtle is that this whole subject
gets VERY silly at times.
One that really grinds me are the people that over-restore to the
point that the body panels line up as if done in a modern factory
using laser equipment. I doubt many Corvairs ever had panel
alignment like that! Also, they use base coat/clear coat and make
the paint so much nicer than factory. And powder coat all kinds of
things that were never powder coated. Pretty in their own way, just
not "factory" despite them entering them in competitions as factory.
So -- just enjoy your car. If something is not factory or you are
not sure, does it really change how your car drives and handles? I
rescued a gelding Thoroughbred race horse ... and for $600.00 I could
get the genuine Jockey Club certified papers ... but I suspect he
rides just the same without them :-) so I never bothered.
E
At 01:16 PM 12/14/2010, you wrote:
>Eric,
>
>They weren't wrapped in plastic and did have oil and gasoline..ever
>see them drive off the truck bringing them to the dealer? No goopy
>stuff, either.
>
>Chuck S
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric S. Eberhard" <flash at vicsmba.com>
>To: <virtualvairs at corvair.org>; <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
>Cc: <Sethracer at aol.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 2:51 PM
>Subject: <VV> Corvair A/C Question
>
>
>>Trying to unequivocally state what came from the factory and exactly
>>how everything was is a futile exercise. There were variations
>>between factories, workers, dealers, and customers. I have a 62 A/C
>>Coupe originally sold in Bakersfield, CA. I have the original
>>customer's invoice/sticker in terrible shape ... which specifies
>>non-tinted windows. So not all A/C cars had tinted windows. You can
>>never tell customer taste and I have no idea how the dealer achieved
>>it. Perhaps the dealer changed the windows or added the A/C, but A/C
>>is listed in the factory option section, the non-tinted windows
>>listed in the car description. But, I bet the dealer made this
>>document so who knows (or cares) -- my car certainly was sold from
>>the dealer with A/C.
>>
>>Just for the record nobody has (or wants) a car just like it left the
>>factory. Forget about bias ply tires, points, etc -- from the
>>factory it was wrapped in plastic, had no gas, no oil, had goopy
>>stuff to protect it ... it would seem a more correct standard would
>>be to restore a car to how it left the dealer with some wriggle room
>>for safety. That is what I do anyway.
>>
>>I had a 74 BMW 3.0 CSL that was equipped in a way that everyone said
>>was not correct. This caused me trouble trying to sell it. Then a
>>kind person sent me a period magazine article. It showed pictures of
>>their test car equipped exactly like mine -- to a "T" -- and in the
>>article the explained that their's was an "export" version and hence
>>was equipped with variations from the home market version. And my
>>car was correct despite 25 experts that said otherwise!
>>
>>E
>>
>>
>>
>>At 06:45 PM 12/13/2010, virtualvairs-request at corvair.org wrote:
>>>Message: 2
>>>Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 16:37:34 EST
>>>From: Sethracer at aol.com
>>>Subject: Re: <VV> Corvair A/C Question
>>>To: brent.fullard at rogers.com, virtualvairs at corvair.org
>>>Message-ID: <3a579.43d33709.3a37ec1e at aol.com>
>>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>>
>>>
>>>In a message dated 12/13/2010 12:36:44 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
>>>brent.fullard at rogers.com writes:
>>>
>>>Re: " The factory cut the openings with a cutting torch "
>>>
>>>Are you sure about that? This picture from Kent Sullivan's website of a
>>>donor car with factory A/C sure doesn't look like torch cut openings to
me,
>>>and more like stamped openings:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>The factory was working with an empty car body - no interior installed.
>>>Cutting it with a torch was easy and quick. The dealer had to work within
a
>>>complete car, carpeting - at least some, wiring, and a painted
>>>dash panel. He
>>> could not use a torch. Unless you bought the car new, and watched it
come
>>>off the truck, it is hard to tell the difference between a proper dealer
>>>installed A/C and the factory. (That is providing that the other common
>>>options like tinted glass are installed.)
>>>
>>>- Seth Emerson
>>
>>
>>Eric S. Eberhard
>>(928) 567-3727 Voice
>>(928) 567-6122 Fax
>>(928) 301-7537 Cell
>>
>>Vertical Integrated Computer Systems, LLC
>>Metropolis Support, LLC
>>
>>For Metropolis support and VICS MBA Support!!!! http://www.vicsmba.com
>>
>>Fun personal pictures: Includes horses, dogs, Corvairs, and
>>more. http://www.vicsmba.com/ourpics/index.html
>>
>>However, most new pictures are on Facebook.
>>
>>
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>>This list sponsored by the Corvair Society of America,
>>http://www.corvair.org/
>>Post messages to: VirtualVairs at corvair.org
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>
>
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Eric S. Eberhard
(928) 567-3727 Voice
(928) 567-6122 Fax
(928) 301-7537 Cell
Vertical Integrated Computer Systems, LLC
Metropolis Support, LLC
For Metropolis support and VICS MBA Support!!!! http://www.vicsmba.com
Fun personal pictures: Includes horses, dogs, Corvairs, and
more. http://www.vicsmba.com/ourpics/index.html
However, most new pictures are on Facebook.
_______________________________________________
This message was sent by the VirtualVairs mailing list, all copyrights are
the property
of the writer, please attribute properly. For help,
mailto:vv-help at corvair.org
This list sponsored by the Corvair Society of America,
http://www.corvair.org/
Post messages to: VirtualVairs at corvair.org
Change your options: http://www.vv.corvair.org/mailman/options/virtualvairs
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