<VV> 68 Vette, C.Jordan, Astro I and Opel GT's.

[James P. Rice]

All:  First, Chuck Jordan was a friend of the Corvair and a real car guy.
His speech at the Palm Springs Fan Belt Toss in ??? was very interesting.
It was printed subsequently in the Communique, but I cannot tell you which
one with out digging into by files.  I met Chuck at the Detroit Convention
in '79.  We had had some Ferrari model buying and selling contact before
then, which got me a friendly conversation and a ride in the Monza SS at the
Tech Center.  His love of Ferrari's was a thorn in tails of the brass at GM.

Seth is correct about the design inspiration for the 68 Vette.  The Phoenix
was introduced in mid-1966, so the time line for it to be the inspiration
for the 68 Vette, introduced in the fall of 1967, is untenable.  But if you
squint, you can see the lines of the Corvair Monza GT from '62 in the Marko
Shark II and hence the 68 Vetted.  Just to clarify the linage, the Marko
Shark I was the styling prototype for the 63-67 Vettes.  The 68 Vette's roof
line is often cited as inspired by the LM Sprint, rather than the Phoenix.
Time line is possible, but that roof line was more likely copied from the
production Porsche 904 GTS and Ferrari 250LM from about '62.  Both Porsche
and Ferrari used the roof line in about '61 on their mid-engine endurance
race cars as a solution to the aerodynamics caused by the FIA mandated
windshield height.

Chuck Jordan was at Opel before coming back to Detroit as head of GM Design.
He was there when the Opel GT was done.  While the styling of the Opel GT
has caused many to refer to it a mini 68 Vette, the Opel GT styling goes
back to the Monza GT, especially when you compare the Monza GT and the
styling prototype of the Opel GT.  Production requirements shortened and
raised the body lines of the Opel GT from those of the prototype.

I've often wondered why one of us Corvair crazies has not stuffed a Corvair
drive train into the "Back seat" of a Opal GT.

What actually killed the Corvair was the buying choices of the American
people.  They bought Falcons about 3 to 1 over the Corvair and Plymouth
Valiant.  Ed Cole say the sales numbers and in mid-1960 started the Chevy II
program, which was introduced in the fall of 1961 as a '62 model.  It was
the shortest model intro in GM's history up to that time.  If I remember
correctly, the combined sales of the Corvair and the Chevy II did not ever
equal the Falcon sales.  If you do some research on the Mustang, Ford's Lee
Icaccoa saw the trend to sporty cars, as exemplified by the Monza and then
the Spyder.  But he was working the on the idea before the Monza came out.
Ford began stuffing their new SB V-8 into Falcons in about 62.  And DeLorean
saw it also, and was stuffing 326's into the '63 Tempest and then 389's into
the LeMan's, creating the GTO in '64.  And everybody was stuffing big blocks
into full size cars of all brands.  So the Mustang was "merely" a quick
effort to tap an emerging market, and was successful beyond anybody's
dreams.  It broke the first year new car sales record previously held by
the...Falcon.

The Astro I was a left over chassis from Chevy's R&D efforts on car
handling.  GM Design VP Bill Mitchell go his hands on it when R&D was done
with it.  Just as he did with the first two chassis, which became the Monza
GT and Monza SS.  Car & Driver called the Astro I a Lotus 30 with a roof.
Which was an accurate description, assuming you know what a Lotus 30 looks
like.  There was a Astro II, a mid engine Chaparral 2D look-alike and a
Astro III, which was a 3 wheel turbine powered thinging if I remember
correctly.  Wouldn't Nadar have had fun with that car!!

Historically Yours,
                   James Rice

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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 22:15:20 EST
From: Sethracer at aol.com
Subject: <VV> 1968 Corvette Influences
To: chaz at ProperProPer.com, Ebarr19 at aol.com, virtualvairs at corvair.org

We may never know the complete story. Chuck Jordan, the GM design chief
during much of that era died yesterday. A design era died along with him.
Chuck addressed the Palm Springs Fan Belt Toss banquet a number of years
ago, then drove home in his Ferrari. The Corvettes of the era were some of
the last Bill Mitchell controlled design group.

The Prototype for the 68 Corvette was the 1965 Corvette show car, the Mako
Shark  II. It is a dead ringer for the 68 Vette. In 69, the car was updated
to the Manta Ray - Lots like the last C3 Vettes. Unlikely the  1966 Phoenix
influenced the Vette, more likely the other way around.

Seth Emerson


In a message dated 12/10/2010 4:47:15 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
chaz at ProperProPer.com writes:

Hmmm...  Interesting and certainly a nice design (the ?Phoenix?) but I?m not
certain  which came first ?  The Astro I was 1967, but when did the Phoenix
get  built ?

Charlie

From: Ebarr19 at aol.com
Sent: Friday, December  10, 2010 4:27 PM
To: chaz at ProperProPer.com ; virtualvairs at corvair.org
Subject: Re: <VV> Was the Astro I the 'prototype' 1968 Corvette  ?

I think the Fitch Phoenix was the inspiration for the 68 Corvette design.

Gene Barr