<VV> Toyota - some Corvair - daydreaming ?

Sun Aug 15 18:56:56 EDT 2010

What I posted was only the tip of the proverbial iceberg of knowledge
gleaned from learning OBD in 'self-defense' of my prior and hopefully
decreasing ignorance of such things !

You have obviously not spent as much time as I have trying to figure out the
lies told to me by mechanics about the "mysteries" of OBD, designed to "sell
up" their services from small repairs to engine rebuilds (that ended in
'vehicular car-slaughter' the dead bodies of which litter not only my
driveway, but the civil courts).

So, a natural extension of this knowledge is not only to understand why cars
a re so much more complicated, but apply that technology to my first love,
our Corvairs.

Daydream ?  I don't think so, although it may not be for the timid or
pragmatic, just those out there who may like to stretch their imagination ?

OBD and related systems are very intriguing, at least to me, even if I'm not
simply trying to be able to defend myself against mechanics who replace
entire systems, when a knowledgeable person (whom they fear intensely, but
rarely encounter), will see their deceit and replace just the cam sensor for
$23, for example instead of the entire distributor for $350, which they all
claimed was impossible, and were indignant when I suggested otherwise.

So, my suggestion to apply OBD to something meaningful to us does not mean I
have a lot of time to waste.
I definitely do not, but my brain works even when I don't consciously tell
it to think.

Sometimes I wish it wouldn't but I kind of like where it takes me, so you
have my permission to get off at the next scheduled stop (or jump just jump
off if you like ?)

Charlie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ron" <ronh at owt.com>
To: "Charles Lee" <Chaz at ProperProper.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: <VV> Toyota - some Corvair

> You have too much time to daydream!
> RonH
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Charles Lee" <Chaz at ProperProper.com>
> To: <virtualvairs at corvair.org>; "Tony Underwood" <tony.underwood at cox.net>
> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 12:43 PM
> Subject: Re: <VV> Toyota - some Corvair
>
>
>> All of this could be true and even likely.
>>
>> After dealing with all the complexities of OBD-II on my Fords, victims of
>> 'vehicular car-slaughter', I realize the value of all those devices, and
>> wonder how they could be applied to Corvairs ?
>>
>> Corvairs, are luckily, not subject to smog controls (yet), but what if 
>> they
>> change that ?
>>
>> All this talk about electronic ignition etc not being worth the perceived
>> benefit (depending on who's talking) makes me wonder if it wouldn't be an
>> interesting project to control a Corvair engine as precisely as modern
>> engines ?
>>
>> Let's hope we don't get any 'runaway Corvairs' in the process, which, the
>> complexities involved, is not a trivial matter.
>>
>> An interesting idea nonetheless - any takers ?
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Tony Underwood" <tony.underwood at cox.net>
>> To: <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 9:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: <VV> Toyota - no Vair
>>
>>
>>> At 04:21 PM 8/11/2010, kenpepke at juno.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>Uh, yes ... there are a lot of dumb drivers. However, the article
>>>>indicates of the reported incidences more than half might be driver
>>>>error.  That would lead one to realize something less than half were
>>>>NOT driver error.  That is a lot of vehicle errors, even for
>>>>Toyota.  Years of junkyard experience tells me that Toyota quality
>>>>has been add by their advertising department from the beginning.
>>>>Ken P
>>>>
>>>> >From the attached article:
>>>>And in more than half of the crashes blamed on sudden acceleration
>>>>analyzed by the government, data from the vehicles&#65533;
>>>>&#65533;black boxes&#65533; show the driver was not stepping on the
>>>>brake at the time of the accident&#65533;indicating that driver
>>>>error may have been at fault.
>>>
>>>
>>> I keep recalling the Toyota pilot whose car ran away, cop car got
>>> after him, followed, figured what was happening and managed to get
>>> ahead of the Toyota and use the cruiser's brakes to stop both
>>> vehicles, Toyota driver got out and refused to get back in, saying he
>>> was never driving a Toyota again.
>>>
>>> Went to court, Toyota said their black box in the car indicated the
>>> driver was stepping on the accelerator instead of the brake...
>>>
>>>
>>> Cop countered with testimony that he watched the brake lights of the
>>> car flashing continuously in a manner that suggested the driver was
>>> pumping the brake pedal.    It also brought back some reflections of
>>> a previous crash of a Lexus that killed a police officer and several
>>> of his family members after his car ran away and crashed.   This was
>>> the cop who phoned 911 telling them to try and clear a path ahead of
>>> him, in the headlong dash through traffic for over a mile before his
>>> car left the road at appx 100 mph and crashed.
>>>
>>> Toyota suggested that the cop's crash was also caused by the officer
>>> accidentally stepping on the accelerator instead of the brake... for
>>> over a mile.   That driver was, in several hundred postings in
>>> various automotive forums among bloggers, nominated for a "Darwin
>>> Award" following Toyota's announcement regarding "accidentally"
>>> pressing the gas instead of brake.    Yeahright.   This was a police
>>> officer who I suspect knew the difference between a gas pedal and a
>>> brake pedal.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe there are NOT so many dumb drivers out there.   Maybe Toyota
>>> techs were lying their asses off or the "black box" was reading the
>>> wrong data or misinterpreting it.   Meanwhile, Toyota countered each
>>> incident with an excuse from floor mats to gas pedals to driver
>>> error...  yet nobody else was having these issues except
>>> Toyota.   Independent software experts were sending in reports of
>>> defects they had found in the Toyota electronics/software... and of
>>> course Toyota insisted * in the news reports * that there was nothing
>>> wrong with their electronics or software, saying the pedal was at
>>> fault although some Toyotas kept having issues after pedal
>>> replacement... and cars that came in for the gas pedal "fix" after
>>> those initial reports were quietly getting new electronics and
>>> software at the dealerships while they were repairing the pedal issue...
>>>
>>>
>>> The pedal is a contract part, not a Toyota part... and several other
>>> car makers use the same pedal assembly.   None of them had any
>>> runaway issues.
>>>
>>>
>>> Fnck Toyota and the whore they rode in on.   They brought this onto
>>> themselves in their mad rush to be #1, and the recalls continue to
>>> this day.   Like I'd said several times along the way, for some years
>>> now, if I won a free Toyota in a contest I'd sell it and buy a
>>> Ford.    Toyota's underhanded business practices for the last 20
>>> years are coming back to haunt them and it's about time.
>>>
>>> Karma's a bitch.
>>>
>>> I'll keep my 'Vairs thanks.   I TRUST them.    I'd been watching
>>> Toyota for some years now, after reading up ( and viewing documentary
>>> research films and interviews) on some underhanded stunts they did
>>> that caused a lot of trouble for domestic industry... up to and
>>> including the sneaky Prius subsidies that a lot of people never found
>>> out about to this day, although they sure as HELL should know about it.
>>>
>>> Toyota's got a lot of damage control to do, and I don't feel sorry
>>> for them one damned bit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> tony..
>>>
>>> PS:   a driver who had been convicted of reckless driving and
>>> manslaughter was recently released from prison where he'd been
>>> serving time for striking and killing pedestrians when his Toyota had
>>> run away and could not be stopped, yet the court didn't believe his
>>> story when he testified in court that the throttle had stuck wide
>>> open and the brakes wouldn't work...  before all the rest of the
>>> runaway Toyota reports had begun surfacing in media.
>>>
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