<VV> painting

Mon Sep 21 10:12:32 EDT 2009

 Agreed, paint technology today has come a LOOOOOONG way. Lacquer is old news, or for trailer queens with 30 coats of the stuff. Today's base coat/clear coat systems, especially the catalyzed polyurethane types, will outlast ANY OE paint from the 60s, be FAR easier to get glossy, and be FAR more resistant to chips and scratches. 

Been down both roads, lacquer just doesn't get it. 

BTW, GREAT explanation on how GM did it! The other critical paint process parameter was the car couldn't sit too long after painting before it went into the ovens. A small amount of residual solvent was necessary for reflow to happen. In GM's case, it was a small dose of high boiling solvent, being the last to leave the surface. 

John Roberts

-----Original Message-----
From: Frank DuVal <corvairduval at cox.net>
To: Tony Underwood <tony.underwood at cox.net>; Virtual Vairs <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
Sent: Mon, Sep 21, 2009 9:01 am
Subject: Re: <VV> painting

Tony:

You are comparing OEM paint to aftermarket paint. They were always two 
different animals, even when produced by the same company (Dupont, RM , 
PPG). OEM paint always held up better than what is sold through paint 
stores to refinish cars. The lacquer applied by GM was a reflow type 
paint. They didn't buff every car! They heated the bodies to 200° F or 
better after applying the paint, so it would flow to a gloss. That is 
why they were painted on the assembly line before wiring and interior 
inst
allation. Aftermarket (refinish market) lacquer never held up well. 
It is just when people traded their cars every few years, the effects 
weren't as noticeable on everyday cars. Now, park your lacquer car in a 
garage, and it will be there looking good a long time. But outside in 
today's acid rain environment? Forget it.

Why would one want to use lacquer to color coat a car and then apply 
urethane clear? Just use today's basecoat color. It is even more 
forgiving than lacquer! Much easier to use. I like Deltron DBU base 
colors. It is very similar to Sikkens in smell, application, etc. I even 
use both brands on the same car if I need two tones, stripes, etc. Now 
it is time to learn waterbase!

Back about 1980, R-M made 2K clear, which was for clear coating lacquer 
base. I did that for a short time before switching to urethane system 
base colors. I still use my lacquer stock for furniture painting. Inside 
it holds up well. But for really glossy furniture, urethane is still the 
way to go. I have even painted bathroom cabinetry with urethane car 
paint. Excellent.

Lacquer just dries by evaporation of the solvent, so most lacquer paint 
can be revived with fresh thinner and time. Enamels dry through 
oxidation, they usually cannot be revived as a chemical change has occurred.

Frank DuVal

Tony Underwood wrote:

>Either that, or paint it...
>
>
>That's a viable option right about now seeing as I'm in the mood, 
>having shifted into "paint and body" mode
 over the last week.
>
>
>Remember that '62 ragtop from Back When?    Painted it (finally) 
>maroon, finished the final color coat yesterday, now waiting the 
>required day or so for the paint to harden and cure before buffing it 
>out, and yes it's lacquer and I'll probably regret it after a few 
>years.   Lacquer these days isn't what it used to be, although this 
>particular maroon stuff is "vintage" paint that had been sitting for 
>quite some time, probably a couple of decades now.   It still was 
>fine, no settling or thickening nor did it do anything but just go on 
>smoothly.
>
>I'd been looking for "back shelf" lacquer on Ebay and at paint shops 
>around town for some time, trying to find older commercial quality 
>stuff that hopefully still had some substance to it and I've acquired 
>some older lacquer that although rather long of tooth still seems to 
>be pretty good and looks as if it will maybe work out without rotting 
>when exposed to the sun for a couple of years.
>
>Recently (well, several years ago) we bought some fresh Roman Red 
>lacquer (PPG) to paint the '60 Monza and it has NOT held up 
>well.   Even clear coated, it has faded and is beginning to flake on 
>the top surfaces that catch the most sunlight and will need a partial 
>repaint again.    The same color red that is on the recently acquired 
>'61 Lakewood which hasn't seen any wax since 1971 and has been 
>sitting in the weather a VERY long time will STILL s
hine if waxed and 
>indeed the sides are still showing gloss now, and that paint is the 
>factory original lacquer.    I don't know what GM was using then but 
>it sure holds up better than what is available these days.
>
>
>As mentioned, lacquer ain't what it used to be.    This is partly the 
>reason I decided to use this gallon of dusty and faded-label maroon 
>paint that had been sitting around for many years.   Hopefully it's 
>gonna hold up.   Likewise the Datsun red I have, and some DuPont 
>white (ford white) and a gallon of DuPont black that dates back to 
>the late '70s I think...  not sure if I'm gonna turn up any more old 
>lacquer in this town.   I still haunt Ebay now and again looking for 
>vintage lacquer but it's dried up even there. ;)
>
>
>
>I have considered using a urethane clearcoat over lacquer to help 
>make it more durable but I'm suspicious of how well it will actually 
>stay on the car.  Urethanes are still basically enamels (tough 
>enamels, I admit) but enamels do not have a very good history of 
>sticking to plastic paint such as acrylic lacquer.    Others in the 
>business I've talked to have said they hadn't had very good luck with 
>clearcoating lacquer with urethane.    So, this maroon is gonna be 
>it... we'll see how it holds up to the environment.
>
>If nothing else it's an excuse to go out and buy some more Meguiars #8.
>
>
>
>
>tony..  
>
>  
>
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