<VV> 4 doors

Tue Sep 8 13:40:44 EDT 2009

The performance aspect probably is only limited to what was ordered. Drag racers would frequently order the cheapest and lightest (curb weight) car available, which usually was a 2door sedan (and with a 4speed manual). A 4door obviously had more metal in them, hence was several pounds heavier. But other than that, there were many 4doors and even wagons that were ordered with the top-line performance driveline, usually for towing duty (and with an automatic). Back in the '50's and '60's just about anything could be ordered with anything.

What I feel was the clincher, though, is that 2door cars don't have to worry about rear seat entrance, so need no provision for a door's clearance lines to hamper any styling lines. Thus 2door cars often had sleeker lines. Thus the perception that 2door cars are "always" more "sporty" or beautiful, an image that is not necessarily always the case. There is no reason a 4door car has to be any less beautiful than a 2door, and in some cases the 4door car is arguably better looking than its 2door version.

Such is the case with the LM Corvair, IMHO. The LM Corvair 4door hardtop is really a stunningly beautiful car, from any angle. Which is why I champion it. Why I berate the LM 2door is because of what I feel is its ungainly 3/4 angle. GM was trying to duplicate the full-sized 2door's fastback look, and I feel they failed. The worst sin was the overly rounded body lines from that angle, and the skinny pillar only complicated and emphasized that bloated look.

But since it's all in fun, what the heck! Like the early vs late thread. Though I DO want to point out that those of us who honestly like the 4doors are faced with not only a 3:1 lower production ratio, but a higher atrition rate (because of "2door" prejudice, no doubt). Thus even restoration and salvaged parts for them are extremely hard to find. All of which makes a nice 4door rare, Rare,  RARE!

I am actually trying to encourage people to save 4doors, and particularly (when parting one out) to save those parts that are particular to them, especially the soft trim. They're worth their weight in gold, to those who need them.

-Mark

P.S., BTW, my '84 Impala police car is still going strong, after a quarter million miles and numerous salty winters. Other than some rust in the rear quarters and some (probable) valve stem seals going bad, the car is solid and runs like a champ. And the heads have never been off! :o) And I put antique plates on it, and a light bar, too. LOL

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jay Pitchford 
To: airvair at earthlink.net
Cc: efki at verizon.net; virtualvairs at skiblack.com; hyarnell1 at earthlink.net
Sent: 9/8/2009 11:02:28 AM 
Subject: Re: 4 doors

Methinks the 4-doors lack the performance perception. Lets face it; generally speaking, the only people that went fast in a 4-door vehicle were the cops that were chasing all of us!

The best laugh is, the cops probably had the best factory stock engines and setups, yet those cars were driven into the ground and are long gone. 

On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 10:42 AM, airvair at earthlink.net <airvair at earthlink.net> wrote:

What I was refering to was not in reference to those who genuinely feel that way. Rather, I've seen more than one case where the person was simply following the "herd mentality", that of valuing 2doors simply because "they have only 2 doors and that's what (they presumed) ALL other people prefered", and for no other reason. If everyone would get over this herd mentality and think for themselves, maybe there would be more 4doors saved.

As it is, for example, if you look thru Hemmings for, say, a '67 Chevelle (another of my favorites) you'd swear that they only made 2door coupes and convertables. Rarely does any other than that show up. Why such a horrendous atrition rate on non-two-door cars?

-Mark

----- Original Message -----
From:
To: airvair at earthlink.net
Cc: hyarnell1 at earthlink.net; virtualvairs at skiblack.com
Sent: 9/7/2009 4:27:05 PM
Subject: Re: Re: 4 doors

Mark,

How is following ones preference being a lemming? Does preferring an EM to a LM two or four door make someone a lemming? As far as the design staff goes it just their opinion too. Look at all of the great artists over the years who were not thought of as great in their lifetimes. Just the are critics opinion. As an aside I don't get all the name calling on VV. What's up with that?

Eric

Sep 7, 2009 09:09:29 AM, airvair at earthlink.net wrote:

What you say about "4doors IN GENERAL" is IMHO a self-perpetuating myth.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and yes, I prefer 4doors. Noted
standouts (that are better looking than their 2door counterparts) are not
only the LM Corvair, but cars like the '57 Chevy hardtop and the mid '60's
Chrysler hardtop. But that's my own opinion. What isn't "my" opinion is
what I cited - specifically Bill Mitchell's design staff and (on the 2door)
John Fitch. So you're picking a fight with them as well as me. And since
they have more credentials than you, me, or any number of deluded lemming
car collectors (I'm saving 2doors because everybody does) combined, I have
to go with the REAL experts - those who designed the LM Corvair in the
first place.

It's just too bad that so many car collectors shun the 4doors simply
because they have no mind of their own. They follow everyone else like
lemmings, not realizing what a real value 4doors are. But I don't care,
really, because that only makes 4doors easier to afford, while giving me
all the benefits that the 2doors have AND more. And that includes the LOOK,
too. The LM Corvair is head and sholders above its 2door mate in looks. And
I'm not the only one who thinks so. Just ask Mitchell's staff. Dave did.

-Mark

> [Original Message]
> From: Harry Yarnell
> To: corvair
> Date: 9/7/2009 2:50:12 PM
> Subject: 4 doors
>
> Mark's absolute infatuation with 4 doors doesn't hold up in the car
collecting hobby. Sure the 4 door is more practical than a 2 door, but
artistically, generally not so.We're talking 4 doors in general here; the
Corvair is one of the better looking 4 doors, but compared to the 2 door,
it's second chair. Look at any price guide, and the 4 door is worth less
than the 2 door version. Why? Because collectors like the LOOK of the 2
door better.
> My cars are all 2 doors; all but one and that's not a corvair.
>
> Harry Yarnell
> Perryman garage and orphanage
> Perryman, MD
> hyarnell1 at earthlink.net
> _______________________________________________
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