<VV> Non-Corvair "No Start" Help ! question

[shortle]

I first have to wonder why was it allowed to overheat? Was someone "too frugal" to  properly maintain the cooling system and have since burned up the engine? Can you physically look at the CMP sensor (and see if it has "melted")? I would certainly not change a part as part of a guessing game as parts are too expensive. I would suggest finding a professional that can be trusted (to not replace the oxygen sensor) and to determine the cause of the not running condition. An oxygen sensor certainly can be destroyed by allowing it to come into contact with coolant (from allowing engine to overheat).Look for a minimum of ASE certifications and look at the shop for cleanliness and an appearance of professionalism. Friends, church members, neighbors, or family can probably help with a referance. I would try to find someone who specializes in your make of car and not someone who specializes in all makes and models as the advent of computerized cars makes that virtually impossible. In my shop you would be quoted $90 which WILL determine the problem. This is for 1 hour of diagnosis. There are times we can figure it out in less than 1 hour and other times it takes more than 1 hour, but either way the customer is charged 1 hour. This helps to pay for the equipment (about $8000 invested in computers- we don't use generic scanners). Working on cars nowadays is certainly not for dummies and cheapskates certainly more than not end up ruining their cars themselves.
Timothy Shortle of Durango Colorado (in Fountain Hills AZ for the holidays)
Not interested in lousy, cheapskate, untrusting, ignorant customers


-----Original Message-----
>From: roboman91324 at aol.com
>Sent: Dec 22, 2009 2:58 PM
>To: virtualvairs at corvair.org, Chaz at ProperProPer.com
>Subject: <VV> Non-Corvair "No Start" Help ! question
>
>Charlie,
> 
>I am posting this to VV as well as to you directly because it  may help 
>others with similar problems whatever their make of car.  
> 
>On most modern cars with computers, you can access the  computer without 
>the scanner.  The computer stores the problem errors in  memory for a 
>predetermined number of car starts.  You will need to jumper  between two contacts 
>and the error codes will flash at you from the dash board  lights.  You then 
>look them up and hopefully figure out what the problem  is.  This is done 
>with the ignition on but without the engine  running.  At least, that is how 
>it works with most makes of car.  Buy  a service manual from your FLAPS for 
>your series of car to learn what contacts  to jumper and how to interpret the 
>codes.
> 
>Please note that the codes will scroll through in sequence and  then start 
>over.  Write down the codes and let it scroll through a couple  of times to 
>make sure you have it right
> 
>In general, once you have interpreted the codes, the trick is  to figure 
>what is really wrong.  Many problems will create an Oxygen sensor  error 
>message just because the engine is running poorly.  This doesn't mean  that you 
>have a bad sensor.  Many dealerships and other mechanics use this  as an 
>excuse to replace perfectly good sensors and other parts.  It sounds  like you 
>have a good clue as to the problem already but you should always try to  
>match symptoms to the error messages to avoid replacing parts  unnecessarily.
> 
>By the way, most scanners are capable of reading the  errors without the 
>engine running.  Are you sure that yours is not capable  of this?
> 
>By the way, using the jumper method is a cheap way to avoid  buying a 
>scanner for all you frugal types out there.  You will need to buy  or have access 
>to a manual but at least you will have it as a reference for any  other 
>problems that may come up in the future.
> 
>Good luck,
> 
>Doc
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
>Message:  5
>Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 01:25:14 -0800
>From: "Charles Lee"  <Chaz at ProperProPer.com>
>Subject: Re: <VV> Non-Corvair "No  Start" Help ! question
>To: <budpon at cs.com>,    "Louis  Armer" <carmerjr at mindspring.com>
>Cc:  virtualvairs at corvair.org
>Message-ID:  <F05E481847724BF899F8BC627546FEB9 at CharliePC>
>Content-Type:  text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>reply-type=original
>
>Besides my 1967 Monza, my "runner" is a 1996 Ford  Probe (sorry about the 
>name there)
>
>More to the point is that it is not  running after overheating and boiling 
>over (something my Corvair NEVER did  !)
>
>Now it runs for 5 seconds and quits just like turning off the  key.
>
>The "probing" question is whether the camshaft sensor (in the  distributor) 
>is "offline" ?
>
>I have it on some authority that the "5  seconds" of run time is because 
>the PCM/ECU starts the car with initial cam  values, and then seeks "real" 
>camshaft status, finds none and shuts down. (It  runs smooth and high RPM if I 
>flex the pedal until it shuts down)
>
>I  don't want to "shop and swap" for $300 to "test" a new distributor, 
>since CMPS  is integral to it.
>So, can anyone say if this is true, that the Cam sensor  is a likely 
>suspect?
>
>The car is OBD-II and I have a scanner, but can't  get it to run long 
>enough to get DTC codes.
>
>Any ideas on how to test  the "Hall-effect" CMP sensor  ?
>
>Thanks
>Charlie
>
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