<VV> It's time

[Tony Underwood]

At 02:25 PM 12/6/2009, airvair at earthlink.net wrote:

>Those cars (like the LM Corvair) that don't have a full-length "B" pillar
>don't qualify as true sedans, and therefore have been given the name of
>"hardtop" by those same industry standards.


Help me out here.   The auto references I've seen have stated that a 
sedan will "typically" have a b-pillar that extends to the roof, but 
I've found no references anywhere that the pillar *must* do so in 
order to qualify a 4-door 2-row vehicle with a trunk as a sedan.


>The fly in the ointment is that the marketing department has never been
>bound by industry standard terminology. They are, after all, in it for the
>image of it. And it is they (I feel) who have corrupted the correct
>terminology for the sake of marketing.

First question:    What IS a sedan according to strict definition 
(and not someone's industry standard)?   Bypass that pillar thing 
since according to what I've been able to dig up it's not a defining 
characteristic but a common "may or may not" design characteristic.

Next question:   What IS a "hardtop"?


>Given that, therefore, let it be known that ALL early model Corvairs
>(except convertibles, of course) are technically sedans, and that ALL late
>model Corvairs (again, except convertibles) are NOT. They are HARDTOPs.
>Period, end of story.


The definition I was able to find was that "hardtop" was a shortened 
expression for "hardtop-convertible" which was a term coined in the 
1940s to define a 2 or 4 door (non-roadster) car with a fixed roof 
with no 2nd pillar extending to mid-roof, but "pillarless" like a 
convertible.   Is this correct?

I have heard automotive authorities regard cars like the 1955 Buick 
4-door pillarless roof design as a "hardtop sedan".   This was, 
according to that definition, describing the vehicle as such for its 
having 2 rows of seats, a fixed roof, a trunk, 2 or 4 doors, and 
seated at least 4 people.   Were they correct?     (I believe this 
definition predated Corvairs by at least a decade)


Now:   All that being said, what would be the correct classification 
for my '69 Barracuda which had a b pillar , kinda, and no frame 
around the door glass, two rows of seats, and a sorta-trunk that was 
in proclamation only since if the back seat was folded down and you 
opened the rear deck lid you could put sheets of plywood in the car 
(I once transported a couple of rolls of kitchen linoleum), thus the 
car became a sedan delivery, according to the strictest definitions 
I'd seen elsewhere for 2-door vehicles with a flat floor extending 
the length of the interior from the front seats to the rear 
hatch.    ...kinda like a 2 door Lakewood on steroids.    So what was 
that 'Cuda?  A sports coupe?  Fastback coupe?  Sedan 
delivery?  Station wagon?   Mutation?  Cop bait (yellow with black stripes)?


So what IS a late Corvair 4-door?   "Hardtop" defines a vehicle 
without framed glass in its doors and no b pillar extending to the 
roof, but nowhere have I been able to find any reference that 
eliminates the vehicle from still qualifying as the classic 
definition of a vehicle with 2 or 4 doors, a trunk, 2 rows of seats, 
and seats at least 4.


Last question:   Is anyone actually wrong here?


tony..   still working that annoying thing