<VV> Alt Fuels (NO HYDROGEN), slight Corvair content....

[Alan and Clare Wesson]

> I'd assume that CNG requires heavy storage tanks, but I believe it HAS 
> been
> tried as a motor fuel. Is LPG safe/ useful as fuel? I'm guessing that 
> 'propane'
> is prohibitively expensive....

In the UK I run a 95 Volvo wagon on Propane, and Guus in Holland runs (or 
ran) a Vair on the same stuff. The only reasons for doing it are 
taxation-related, because it has plenty of 'negative' issues. But the cost 
of propane here is around what you pay for gasoline (2.2 GBP per US gallon, 
which I reckon is about $3 per gallon at the current rate).

Drawbacks are:

a) as Matt says, it has 90% of the energy, which means you lose 10% of the 
power. This isn't really noticeable in most cars, but a 95 Volvo wagon needs 
all the help it can get...

b) there are usually 'hiccupping and misfiring issues because they are very 
hard to tune - it involves tricking the regular ECU into running at 
different settings, and both the LPG cars I have had (and those of almost 
everyone else I have talked to) have had misfires. It seems to be a choice 
between misfires at low revs and misfires at high revs. On the Volvo I have 
gone for misfires at high revs, because revving that 2.3 litre four over 
3000 revs sets my teeth on edge.

c) the tank has to be accommodated somewhere. On a car with relatively 
limited space like the Volvo, the usual route is to replace the spare wheel 
with a 'doughnut' tank (the car keeps the regular gas tank as well, and when 
you run out of propane/LPG it switches over automatically). You carry a can 
of tyre sealant and keep your fingers crossed, but the doughnut tank only 
holds about 11 gallons, which at the 17 mpg I get on LPG restricts my range 
to about 150 miles. In reality, on a long trip, it means I stop at every LPG 
station I see, because they are often more than 100 miles apart, and so if 
you go over 100 miles it is easy to run out. And when you have paid $2000 
for the conversion and gasoline costs twice as much, you get kind of cheap 
about running on gasoline...

d) it takes a seriously long time to fill up (about twice as long as 
gasoline), and as there are lots of fail-safes and safety cut-outs on the 
pumps there are frequent instances where you stand there holding the button 
in and nothing happens, so you have to go into the payment place, queue up, 
ask the guy what the problem is, he has to reset the pump, you go back out 
again, and if you are lucky it works. If not you start over. Average filling 
stop time is 20 minutes. Last time we drove down through France we did the 
600 miles in convoy, my wife driving a VW Beetle diesel that does 50 mpg and 
holds 12 gallons, and me driving the Volvo. She filled up as she came off 
the ferry and cruised at 75 mph, and I drove the Volvo and cruised at 85 mph 
(yes, it will get there in the end). My 5 fill-up stops took a total of 1 
1/2 hours, and so although she was doing 10 mph less, she got there long 
before me.

e) the pumps are the only one on the forecourt but are often with a gas or 
diesel pump, and other people tend not to realise, so they park there and go 
and have a sandwich, not realising they are blocking the only pump I can 
use. Longest I have waited is 25 minutes (that was a very aggressive van 
driver who refused to eat his lunch more quickly!).

f) there are no safety issues that I am aware of. With all those failsafes 
it isn't really likely! But they are prohibited from the Channel Tunnel!

g) the filling procedure is different in every country and between a lot of 
gas stations, so you have to re-learn how to attach the connector each 
time...

h) there is anecdotal evidence that they cause head gasket failure because 
the engine runs hotter. It has certainly happened to me in my Mitsubishi 
wagon (twice) and to every other person I know who has them, but this could 
be the specific cars - my Mitsubishi used water before I had the conversion 
done and all the other cars are Range Rovers and Freelanders, which are 
known for head gasket failure (Buick 215 engine 'developed' by Rover...).

i) cars that run on LPG don't run on CNG and vice-versa. The whole of Europe 
is LPG except Switzerland, which is CNG. So last time I drove through 
Switzerland I filled up at the Italian border and tried to get to Germany on 
one tank. But by my route it was over 250 miles and all mountains and I 
didn't make it, so I ended up doing 100 miles at 20 mpg on gasoline at $8 a 
gallon, which was annoying. Now I just avoid Switzerland.

j) there are no climate change advantages (despite the government's spin to 
the contrary) because LPG puts out about 10% less CO2 than gasoline - but 
you use 10% more of it!

I think that's it.

LPG on a Vair *might* be a good idea (you wouldn't have much trunk left 
though!), especially as you have no ECU to tune. The reason I have the LPG 
on the Volvo and not on any of my other cars now is that the Volvo is a 
tractor engine, is cheap, simple and agricultural, and if it gets head 
gasket failure there are lots more in the junkyard. But I am NOT going to 
have my 24 valve Lancia converted, or my BMW 730, because they are both more 
highly-strung engines and more expensive to repair. In the end we had to 
junk the Mitsubishi because the parts were so expensive, so using the Volvo 
feels a lot safer.

Hope that helps - I am seriously considering having my Vair converted when I 
bring it over, but the payback period would be very long because I do 
relatively few miles in my classic cars.

Cheers

Alan