<VV> Frustrating weekend, continued

[Ron]

The ignition shouldn't have anything to do with it but just to make sure, 
disconnect the 12 volt lead to the coil and see if it makes any difference. 
Assuming it won't, then all you need be concerned with is the battery, 
starter and ring gear, providing, of course, that the engine turns normally 
with a wrench.  To find out what's normal, turn a local club members engine 
just to get the feel of it.
RonH

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris" <vairchris at gmail.com>
To: <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 12:11 PM
Subject: <VV> Frustrating weekend, continued


>I got a lot of good suggestions in response to the two e-mails (copied
> below) that I sent out earlier.  I reset the timing manually by aiming the
> rotor at the # 1 spark plug when the timing mark was aimed at "14" on the
> indicator.  I swapped out the coil with another that I had.  I ordered a 
> new
> starter from Clark's and installed it.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, nothing has changed.  The new starter still won't turn the
> motor when the plugs are in.  It will when the plugs are out.  One point I
> forgot to mention is that it has a petronix ignitor.  That's about the 
> only
> thing in the electrical system that I haven't swapped out yet.  I'm 
> running
> out of things to try.  Keep those ideas coming, and thank you.
>
>
>
>
>
> e-mail # 2:
>
> My first post was long, so I'm just going to start where I left off. 
> Thanks
> to everyone who has responded so far.
>
>
>
> First, for those who asked, I have a powerglide.
>
>
>
> Second, I checked the oil.  It is at the full level, not overfull, and no
> smell of gasoline.  I took out all six spark plugs.  Numbers 1, 3, 5, and 
> 6
> had wet tips.  After taking out each spark plug, I tried to crank the 
> motor
> using the starter.  No luck. until all six plugs were out.  Once there is 
> no
> compression possible at all, the starter will spin the engine.  I let it 
> sit
> for a few hours, figuring that any gas in the cylinders would evaporate 
> out
> (or maybe was pumped out while I was spinning the engine).  By the way, 
> when
> I was spinning the engine, NO gas came out of the spark plug holes.
>
>
>
> After a few hours, I put the plugs back in and tried to crank it again.
> With the plugs in (even with one plug in), the starter will not spin the
> engine.  Took the plugs out again, and it spins just nicely.  There is no
> clatter or noise in the engine when it is spinning, so I don't think there
> is an issue in there.
>
>
>
> Several suggested that my ground wire or my 12 volt supply to the starter
> might be at fault, so I eliminated that possibility by putting the 
> positive
> and negative from my 200 amp charger/starter directly to the starter.  The
> starter pulled a lot of juice out of that charger, but still wouldn't 
> crank
> the engine.
>
>
>
> Is it possible for a starter to function fine when it is not under load 
> and
> to malfunction when it is under load?  On the tester at the local parts
> store, it passed the tests, and it seems to hum right along, but it sure
> isn't turning this engine when compression is part of the equation.
>
>
>
> I considered the possibility that the harmonic balancer might have 
> slipped,
> causing to valves to be in a closed position when they should be open, but 
> I
> inspected it, and it looks nearly new.
>
>
>
> What should I check next?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> e-mail # 1:
>
>
>
> Sorry in advance if this is a little long, but I need the advice to be 
> good,
> so I want to be thorough.
>
>
>
> A few weeks ago, I decided to deal with a problem I've been having with 
> the
> choke on my 61rampside.  It has a 62 80 hp engine in it, so it has 
> automatic
> choke, but the choke rods were broken off below where I could get to them 
> by
> the previous owner.  It was frustrating because it took 10 min to get the
> thing going whenever I wanted to go for a ride, and sometimes it would
> mysteriously stall and take me a while to get it going again.  I decided 
> to
> take care of several things at once, so I replaced the inline fuel filter
> and the fuel pump with new.  I replaced the choke coils and rods, and I
> swapped out the carbs for some nicely rebuilt ones from Grant Young.
>
>
>
> With all that done, it, unfortunately, ran worse.  The problems seemed to 
> be
> mainly on the right side, with backfiring out the exhaust and, to a lesser
> extent, out the carb.  It would stall every time I came to a stop, and I
> would have to pump the gas a couple of times if I wanted it to start.  It
> also had less power than it had had before I started (not than an 80 HP 
> has
> much power to spare).  I got some advice from here and from Grant Young on
> how to trouble shoot my problems and set out to get it running perfectly. 
> I
> discovered that the timing was way off, so I set about adjusting it.
> Problem is, I'm working alone, and, did I mention, whenever the truck is
> stopped, it stalls.  So, I was trying to adjust the timing and use the
> timing light and keep the engine from stalling and restart it whenever it
> would stall all at the same time.
>
>
>
> Before I could get the timing right, it stalled again.  However, this time
> when I tried to restart it, the starter would not respond.  I figured I'd
> run the battery down, so I put the big Sears charger/starter on and set it
> to 40 amps and came back ½ hour later.  This time, the starter would 
> barely
> move (like with a cold battery in the dead of winter in Northern 
> Minnesota).
> So, I kicked the charger/starter to the "jump start" mode and tried again.
> It would still barely rotate the engine as I cranked.  And as I glanced at
> the charger, it was showing that it was delivering over 200 amps, so the
> starter was really pulling all the juice I could put out.  The cables on 
> the
> charger even heated up.
>
>
>
> And, when I stopped cranking and let go of the key, the fuses on my stereo
> both blew.  That was weird, since it is a whole other circuit.
>
>
>
> So, I figured there was a short in the starter somewhere and I pulled it
> out.  I drove over to my local parts store, and they put it on their 
> tester.
> It tested perfectly and sang like a brand new starter (it actually looks
> like a brand new starter).
>
>
>
> So now, I'm thinking one of two things.  It could be that something 
> happened
> inside the engine to make it too hard for the starter to turn.  That seems
> less likely to me because the starter will turn it, albeit slowly, and I
> don't hear any unusual sounds coming from it.  So, it's not seized and 
> there
> is no clanging, banging or other ominous noise as it goes through its 1
> revolution every 20 seconds.
>
>
>
> My other thought is that I must have a short somewhere else that draws 
> power
> whenever I'm cranking the starter.  I just don't know where that would be.
> I tried cranking it with a remote starter lead, in case there was a short 
> up
> in the ignition switch or something, but that didn't make any difference.
> And wherever the short is, why would it surge power into the stereo 
> circuit
> when I let it go?
>
>
>
> A few people had suggested here that the problem I was having with
> intermittent stalling might actually be a sign that my coil is on its way
> out.  Could something in the coil cause all this to happen while the 
> starter
> is active?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance (and again) for all your help.
>
>
>
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