<VV> Novas and Vairs and Toronado

Fri Apr 13 15:55:51 EDT 2007

For the same (albeit backwards) reasons that the Corvair is so good, but the 
Vair doesn't have 5000 lbs in the front and nothing over the rear wheels ?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ron" <ronh at owt.com>
To: "Bill Elliott" <corvair at fnader.com>; <mhicks130 at cox.net>
Cc: <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: <VV> Novas and Vairs

> My '67 Toronado was the greatest car I've ever had and it had snow 
> traction you couldn't beat.
> RonH
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bill Elliott" <corvair at fnader.com>
> To: <mhicks130 at cox.net>
> Cc: <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 6:34 AM
> Subject: Re: <VV> Novas and Vairs
>
>
>> To anyone who thinks FWD is dangerous or not fun to drive, may I remind 
>> you of the tremendous success of the Mini Cooper S in numerous outright 
>> rally wins against much more powerful (and more "sporting") competition?
>>
>> FWD, like all other forms of driveline, has advantages and disadvantages. 
>> It is the best configuration for low traction surfaces (proven in any 
>> number of tests), it makes for forgiving handling (natural tendancy to 
>> understeer, drop throttle corrections, etc),  and makes for a convenient 
>> power unit for design and engineering purposes (as does a similar power 
>> unit in rear engine RWD designs) with little encroachment into the 
>> passenger space.
>>
>> For all of its benefits, rear engine, RWD fails the "forgiving handling" 
>> test. Even though the handling  limits may be higher (handling limits in 
>> FWD are necessarily limited by the conditions already discussed) the 
>> behavior at and after that limit is more suitable for a larger number of 
>> drivers. Plus FWD gives you much more early information to slow down... 
>> Only the advent of traction control and stability control (as well as 
>> modern tire design which make the handling limits harder to reach in 
>> normal driving) makes the return of RWD practical for the general market. 
>> ABS also makes a significant improvement in the safety of FWD handling...
>>
>> So for the masses, I think FWD is the best solution, but outside of my 
>> Minis, I try to avoid it for my own cars...
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> mhicks130 at cox.net wrote:
>>
>>>>------------------------------ 
>>>>
>>><snip>
>>>And when you do break the drive wheels loose, it's going to slide off 
>>>wherever it wants. With rear drive, you will still have some semblence of 
>>>steering control, which may make the difference between hitting a bridge 
>>>abuttment or missing it. I say no thank you to FWD. To each his 
>>>own..... -Mark
>>>>------------------------------ 
>>>>
>>>
>>>I've driven FWD cars since I started driving (1976) and I've driven near 
>>>bridges and I've NEVER run into a bridge abuttment or anything else for 
>>>that matter.  How's that for anectdotal evidence for ya?
>>>FWD is forgiving and typically has lots of understeer but I don't think 
>>>that equates to not being fun to drive.  I loved driving my '85 Golf on 
>>>windy roads.  Just because I didn't have to worry about the rear end 
>>>coming around on me doesn't mean I wasn't having fun.  I absolutely love 
>>>driving my Corvair but I also loved driving that Golf.  I like 'em both I 
>>>guess.  But to say FWD is bad or dangerous is just wrong in my book.
>>>
>>>mikeH
>>>
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