front vs rear drive, was: <VV> Novas and Vairs

[airvair]

I agree with Bill on this one.

My brother hated to see a Mini show up at certain autocrosses. He was
running a BMW 2002 and the Mini was put in his class. On a tight or
(especially) dirt or gravel track, the Mini was a holy terror. All the
driver had to do was floor it, and when he needed to turn, crank the
wheel with one hand and pull up on the handbrake with the other. They
could literally walk the inside front wheel around the rim of the cone.
With that ability, they often picked up FTD.

On the flip side, Ray Johnson wrote a great article once for the CCE's
Air Horn on his experience at one ice racing event. Seems they had time
for some fun runs, so he borrowed a friend's front driver (he'd been
running a rear driver.) Anyway, the harder he tried, the slower he got.
Came to the conclusion that some of us can adapt to front drive, others
like himself (and me also) can't. So he decided to just stick to rear
drivers. My conclusion, also.

In daily driving, I find that, for me, front drive absolutely requires
traction control. It's simply just too easy to break the drive wheels
loose, and as I've often pointed out, that means you lose steering
control as well. Not so with rear drive, as you still maintain some
semblence of steering control. Front drivers have pointed me more times
towards the ditch than all my other rear drivers put together, and most
of my driving has been with rear drivers. So for me, front drive
(without traction control) is an accident waiting to happen.

Besides, it's so much fun tossing a Corvair around a corner with a four
wheel drift power slide. Especially on snow covered streets. May scare
the hell out of granny, but it's a blast for me!

-Mark

Bill Elliott wrote:
> 
> To anyone who thinks FWD is dangerous or not fun to drive, may I remind
> you of the tremendous success of the Mini Cooper S in numerous outright
> rally wins against much more powerful (and more "sporting") competition?
> 
> FWD, like all other forms of driveline, has advantages and
> disadvantages. It is the best configuration for low traction surfaces
> (proven in any number of tests), it makes for forgiving handling
> (natural tendancy to understeer, drop throttle corrections, etc),  and
> makes for a convenient power unit for design and engineering purposes
> (as does a similar power unit in rear engine RWD designs) with little
> encroachment into the passenger space.
> 
> For all of its benefits, rear engine, RWD fails the "forgiving handling"
> test. Even though the handling  limits may be higher (handling limits in
> FWD are necessarily limited by the conditions already discussed) the
> behavior at and after that limit is more suitable for a larger number of
> drivers. Plus FWD gives you much more early information to slow down...
> Only the advent of traction control and stability control (as well as
> modern tire design which make the handling limits harder to reach in
> normal driving) makes the return of RWD practical for the general
> market. ABS also makes a significant improvement in the safety of FWD
> handling...
> 
> So for the masses, I think FWD is the best solution, but outside of my
> Minis, I try to avoid it for my own cars...
> 
> Bill
> 
> mhicks130 at cox.net wrote:
> 
> >>------------------------------
> ><snip>
> >And when you do break
> >the drive wheels loose, it's going to slide off wherever it wants. With
> >rear drive, you will still have some semblence of steering control,
> >which may make the difference between hitting a bridge abuttment or
> >missing it. I say no thank you to FWD. To each his own.....
> >
> >-Mark
> >>------------------------------
> >
> >I've driven FWD cars since I started driving (1976) and I've driven near bridges and I've NEVER run into a bridge abuttment or anything else for that matter.  How's that for anectdotal evidence for ya?
> >
> >FWD is forgiving and typically has lots of understeer but I don't think that equates to not being fun to drive.  I loved driving my '85 Golf on windy roads.  Just because I didn't have to worry about the rear end coming around on me doesn't mean I wasn't having fun.  I absolutely love driving my Corvair but I also loved driving that Golf.  I like 'em both I guess.  But to say FWD is bad or dangerous is just wrong in my book.
> >
> >mikeH
> >