<VV> Car salemen, yes we know we suck... but let's beat that horse(no corvair content value)

[John Miller]

      OK John, so salespeople don't like buyers, (since we're all unreasonable liars) and WE don't like salesmen (since you're all lying idiots).  Fine.  Why do I have to use a salesman?  Why can't I just go to newcars.com and put in my order and have it delivered in a week just like on Amazon?   
I'm sure there are good car salespeople and but there are PLENTY of really bad ones.  I acknowledge that there are also plenty of bad buyers.  In our defense, it's not our job to be good buyers, it is a salesperson's job to be a good salesperson.

mike  
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   Ok, you are right also. As I was trying to say, most people study a particular car may know every detail as opposed to a salesperson who had to know everything good and bad about 50+ models. If I don't know an answer, I will find out as soon as possible. I just get ticked being stereotyped because some guy wearing a checkered coat, white shoes and a belt back in the 70's gave us all a bad name selling shoddy junk produced by the Big Three. I do not lie, cheat, or steal and I do follow through even after a sale because I do not want to sell you one car....I want to sell you ten. I do expect to get paid for my work but I dont expect you to pay my house payment. And yes the majority of buyers only want a car to run and not break. And they want one person to come to when they have a problem. They want comfort, convenience and no hassels. Most only consider the payment. You want service? Find a salesperson who has been in the car business over 3 years and ask him if he has an evidence manual. The average salesperson in the car biz is about 2 years. A salesperson who knows thier stuff will last longer and have letters from satified customers to back him up.
       You are also right about the internet. People do have access to more information like dealer invoice. unfortunately they dont usually read the entire article which tell them what they should expect to pay over invoice. The reason you pump your own gas is because you did not want to pay for full service. You can buy a car online any way you want it. When it breaks they say take it to a dealer who will tell you to get in line behind his customers who have supported his dealership.
         Oh yes and you want to trade your old car in.....now you need a real person to look at it....a salesperson and car appraiser to value your car as Kelly Blue Book is just a guide and doesnt take into account the dents, scrapes, chipped glass,burn holes, rips, tears, worn out tires, non working AC, service engine soon lights, abs warnings, and a pleathera of other problems.
      Most people that come to a salesperson have no clue what they want or need....a young dad wanting the coupe with 3 kids in tow needs to consider the minivan and not the Vette. A real salesperson will listen and help guide you to what meets the need depending on each situation. I could rattle on here for hours.
       But in your case I would suggest you just boycott the car buying process, as it is you, the buyer that has determined how it works in the USA, and perhaps try walking. On the other hand I restore and drive Corvairs as a daily vehicle. It is my reply ,and in kind, echoing your statements.  
     I value your opinion, but you are in the minority, no one has all the answers....God knows not GM.....They replaced the Corvair with the Vega....is that what your really mad about? And as I said before....we cant even agree on one model differences on a 40 year old car here on V V .     Ok Rodney is going to show up any minute to say "why can't we all just get along"

John Miller
Iowa
I didn't say I was 100% right but venting does make me feel better