<VV> E85 fuel (NO CORVAIR)

[Chris C, Warwick RI]

Stupid question.  How would the emissions of an E-85 burner differ from 
regular gas.  Say I setup the 65 to run on it.



At 10:27 AM 2/24/2006, you wrote:
>     While I see some value in considering NET energy, isn't the SELLING 
> PRICE
>per unit of energy what really matters?  If the oil producing countries
>decide to raise the price per barrel from the current $60 to say $100 the NET
>energy won't change at all.  After all,  they raised the price 35 years 
>ago from $3
>to $30.
>     I see a similar thing happening with the current prices for natural gas
>and electricity.  For many years, the price I paid for natural gas was about
>1/4 of the price for electricity based on energy content.  Recently, however,
>the natural gas price is nearly HALF of the electric price.  Taking into 
>account
>the relative efficiencies (my old gas-fired furnace is probably sending 40%
>of the natural gas energy up the chimney while electric heat is 100% 
>efficient
>since NO energy goes up the chimney) it's nearly getting to the point where
>electric heat is approaching natural gas heat on a PRICE basis.
>     Since E-85 has about 70% of the energy value of gasoline (on a gallon
>basis), E-85 at $2 per gallon is equivalent to $2/70% = $2.86 for a gallon of
>gasoline.  This is assuming the same engine burns either fuel.  If the 
>engine is
>modified (higher CR or higher boost or more timing, et al.) to benefit from
>the higher octane of E-85, it will do a more efficient job of utilizing 
>E-85's
>lesser energy content to narrow the mpg difference between the 2 fuels.  In
>addition, the much greater cooling effect of evaporating E-85 in the 
>intake tract
>would serve to produce an intercooling effect on a boosted engine.  Sort of
>like water-alcohol injection but without the water.<GGGG>
>     The governor of NY State (George Pataki) has recently announced a 
> program
>to put alternative energy fuels like E-85 at service stations along the NY
>State Thruway.  In addition, plans are underway to construct a ethanol fuel
>plant in southern NJ, so maybe we will finally begin to see some E-85 for 
>sale in
>the Northeast.
>     Frank "prefers to give my $ to Joe Corncob than to Osama Muhammed"
>Burkhard
>
>In a message dated 2/23/06 9:20:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>airvair at richnet.net writes:
>I just finished a book entitled "What Energy Sources Should Be Pursued?"
>published by Greenhaven Press (www.gale.com/greenhaven or
>www.thomson.com). It's an anthology of several articles by
>well-credentialed people in several fields such as wind and solar power
>and alternate fuels.
>
>The BIG problem as one of them points out is NET ENERGY. To use his
>illustration, if you only had a gallon of gas in your car, and it took a
>gallon of gas to get to the gas station and back, but they only had a
>gallon to sell you, then it wouldn't be worth going after. Hence, that
>is what net energy is about. Once we reach the point where it takes more
>energy to get the fossil fuels (such as oil, in crude, shale oil, etc.)
>than we get out of going after it, then the ballgame's over. Sure, we
>have potentially enough fossil fuels to last hundreds of years, but what
>nobody wants to talk about is the very REAL fact that we have reached
>the point of negative net energy.
>
>Then there's the problems with electric, hydrogen, wind, solar, water,
>and even biofuel power. All have dubvious net energy issues, not to
>mention environmental problems that are often overlooked. All of these
>are further impacted by increasing population. Once there is no energy
>to produce enough food, the world's population will peak by virtue of
>starvation. And electric is incapable of powering large farm machinery
>or for that matter, passenger jets. Game over!
>
>I found the book very worthwile reading. It certainly makes one think.
>
>-Mark
>
>Dennis & Debbie PLEAU wrote:
> >
> > It's my understanding and I'm no expert that it takes 1 BTU of energy to
>make 1 BTU of ethanol, by the time you grow the corn, haul it to the still 
>and
>then get it to the tank farm.  You can ship petro all the way around the 
>world
>and have a net gain in energy.
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