<VV> E85 fuel

[airvair]

I just finished a book entitled "What Energy Sources Should Be Pursued?"
published by Greenhaven Press (www.gale.com/greenhaven or
www.thomson.com). It's an anthology of several articles by
well-credentialed people in several fields such as wind and solar power
and alternate fuels.

The BIG problem as one of them points out is NET ENERGY. To use his
illustration, if you only had a gallon of gas in your car, and it took a
gallon of gas to get to the gas station and back, but they only had a
gallon to sell you, then it wouldn't be worth going after. Hence, that
is what net energy is about. Once we reach the point where it takes more
energy to get the fossil fuels (such as oil, in crude, shale oil, etc.)
than we get out of going after it, then the ballgame's over. Sure, we
have potentially enough fossil fuels to last hundreds of years, but what
nobody wants to talk about is the very REAL fact that we have reached
the point of negative net energy.

Then there's the problems with electric, hydrogen, wind, solar, water,
and even biofuel power. All have dubvious net energy issues, not to
mention environmental problems that are often overlooked. All of these
are further impacted by increasing population. Once there is no energy
to produce enough food, the world's population will peak by virtue of
starvation. And electric is incapable of powering large farm machinery
or for that matter, passenger jets. Game over!

I found the book very worthwile reading. It certainly makes one think.

-Mark

Dennis & Debbie PLEAU wrote:
> 
> It's my understanding and I'm no expert that it takes 1 BTU of energy to make 1 BTU of ethanol, by the time you grow the corn, haul it to the still and then get it to the tank farm.  You can ship petro all the way around the world and have a net gain in energy.
> 
> dp
> 
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Ken Campbell<mailto:deltainc at grm.net>
>   Subject: Re: <VV> E85 fuel
> 
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: <Sethracer at aol.com<mailto:Sethracer at aol.com>>
> 
>   >
>   > In a message dated 2/22/2006 11:26:38 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>   > deltainc at grm.net<mailto:deltainc at grm.net> writes:
>   >
>   > The E85  people say the pump E85 is rated at 110 octane ....
>   > The EPA says 100 Octane.
>   > _http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/e85toolkit/e85_fuel.html_
>   (http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/e85toolkit/e85_fuel.html<http://www.eereenergy.gov/afdc/e85toolkit/e85_fuel.html>)
>   >
>   > - Seth
>   ********
>   Methinks the E85 is slightly over-hyped .... a lot of good people out here
>   are putting in their life savings in starting up a number of local
>   independent E85 stills ....   not to mention a bunch of FEDERAL ( my taxes )
>   subsidies are being freely dispensed.....
> 
>   I think the idea is noble, and maybe even the goal ... but gee, couldnt "
>   they " tell us the awful truth just this once ....  like, it takes twice as
>   many gallons to go anywhere ....   and so far, if everyone started using it,
>   the price would go up... and besides, there is only enough to make 2 %
>   ethanol fuel if we all used it ....
> 
>   Oh well, at least it should run cool ( if mixture is set right ) and gives
>   the Iranians the bird ...
> 
>   regards, ken campbell, deltawerkes
>