<VV> Re: Electronic Vairs

[James Davis]

Not to argue but at $3,800+ for a battery pack seriously adds to the total 
cost of operation a $20,000 vehicle.  Maybe you friend will just trade it 
at 95,000 miles, but with the new owner looking at nearly $4,000 to keep it 
on the road what so you think he will be able to sell it for?
Being on the leading edge cost lots of money.  Using old outdated 
technology is cheep, even if the maintenance cost are somewhat higher. We 
just need to find a battery with the electric density about 4 times 
lead/acid the economy of scale will make fairly cheep and half of the US 
will be electric.
Solar cells of the late 70's had efficiencies of 8% now they  nearly 
15%.  When they get to 50% and the cost come down to about $1,000 per KW it 
makes since but at $0.07 per KWH. it makes no sense to install even if they 
were given to you.  You have to figure the storage, maintenance, and 
interface cost also.
Jim Davis


At 01:47 PM 8/21/2005, TiM M wrote:
>Sorry for the belated reply to this post. I'm a bit
>behind in my e-mail, I've been working on the truck

>
>      I have a 1961 Rampside pickup that has been
>converted to run on electric power. The cost for the
>conversion was about $6000.00. That's a little over
>the $5000.00 dollar number someone else came up with,
>but not much. What does that $6k get you? You get a
>totally silent vehicle that doesn't pollute locally.
>Yes, there is still pollution generated at the power
>plant, a point source of pollution that is tightly
>monitored and generally has up to date pollution
>controls on it. It's not a small variable pollution
>source that's wandering around residential
>neighborhoods spreading it's pollution everywhere,
>that possibly has it's pollution controls checked once
>a year, depending on where you live.
>      When people start slamming electric cars they go
>right to the "Power plants pollute to generate
>electricity". Yes they do, and refineries pollute to
>make gas, and tanker trucks pollute transporting gas,
>my electricity comes in by wires. I can charge at
>night when the power companies generally have an
>excess of power and would like to see an increased
>load. There are all kinds of variables that need to be
>taken into consideration when looking at the amount of
>pollution generated to get power, when talking about
>cars most people ignore anything that happens before
>the gas pump. Is it unfair to view an electric vehicle
>in the same way?
>I can "fill my tank" anywhere there is an outlet. Sure
>it takes quite a bit longer to fill, 4 to 8 hours on
>120V, or 2 to 4 hours on 220V. But the 8-hour estimate
>is for an empty tank, if I can top off anywhere, I can
>keep my charge time to a minimum. The cost for a
>typical 8-hour charge? Electricity is a little pricey
>out here, 13 cents a KWH, I put in 10 last night,
>that's $1.30 and that was for a 30 mile trip. Gas runs
>$2.80 for regular, 2.80/1.30 times 30 = an equivalent
>electrical mileage of 64mpg. Not bad for a 44 year old
>pick up truck. It gets even better if I use mid grade
>or premium gas pricing, what do you typically run in
>your Corvair?
>      The downside? I only get around 50 to 60 miles
>per charge. I can't tell you exactly yet, I've just
>upgraded the truck and put in a new battery pack. The
>batteries need to be broken in, I did my longest trip
>to date only yesterday, that's where the 30 mile
>number came from. I've only had it back on the road
>for a week.
>      The battery pack by itself cost $2k, it should be
>good for 3 to 5 years, your mileage may vary. Is $2k
>for 3 or more years worth of gas reasonable? How about
>the fact that the major maintenance on my truck now
>consists of adding water to the batteries one a month?
>No oil to change (except in the differential) no wires
>to go bad (low voltage 2/0 welding cable will last the
>life of the car) no points, no plugs, no timing or
>valves to adjust. Now if you're into working on cars I
>can see where you might miss this activity, but would
>you really miss the cost of buying all the parts?
>      This is the main reason the auto manufacturers
>are anti electric vehicles, no maintenance. The
>dealers and the major car companies make a substantial
>amount of money from their maintenance operations. The
>electric motor has essentially one moving part, the
>armature and two bearings to support it. It moves in
>one direction only. How simple it that? It's taken
>over a hundred years for them to get so efficient at
>making internal combustion engines (ICE) that they can
>say electric cars are too complicated and expensive to
>make. The levels of complexity between an ICE and an
>electric motor are mind-boggling. Just link of how
>many parts there are and how they move in how many
>different directions, and what mechanisms are needed
>to accomplish this.
>      I'm not expecting to convert anybody over to
>drive electric, it just bothers me to see the same old
>myths being put out as fact against what I obviously
>feel is a viable alternative to burning dino juice, a
>somewhat limited commodity in today's market place.
>
>Tim McCann
>'61 electric Rampside back on the road again!
>
>PS
>Myth 1. Solar cells can put out more power that was
>used to make them in as little as a year, and most
>come with 20-year warranties.
>http://www.ecotopia.com/apollo2/pvpayback.htm
>
>Myth 2. Hybrid car battery packs cost $$ and my buddy
>had to replace his

>The battery packs are guaranteed for 10 years, 100,000
>miles, they haven't gotten there yet, with the
>computer controlled charging and cycling, and their
>advanced chemistries, it's hard to predict how long
>they really will last. If they started building enough
>of them the cost would drop dramatically as well. How
>much would your engine cost you if you hired a
>machinist to machine it for you?  Economies of scale
>is a powerful concept isn't it?
>