<VV> Re: 63 & 64 powertrain interchangeability

[Tony Underwood]

At 05:31 hours 12/05/2004 -0800, Larry Forman wrote:
>At 02:44 PM 12/5/2004 -0800, Dan Greve wrote:
>>I think I can use the '63 4 spd (with the
>>'63 crossmember, input shaft, and input shaft seal),
>>'63 bellhousing , with the '64 std diff.
>>
>>I'll keep ya'll updated, I'm sure I'm not the first
>>one to ask this question.
>>
>>-- Dan
>
>Hi Dan,
>Yes that will work, but remember that the 61-63 4-speeds were pretty 
>primitive 

They're the same design as the '64-65 boxes...?    

>and if you drive it long enough, you will likely have gear 
>shifting issues due to the blocker rings going away.  

Are we talking about the first generation 4-speeds in general?    I've been
inside early first-gen gearboxes and late first-gen boxes (I'm NOT talking
about the '66-up Saginaw series) and the only real differences  between the
'61-'63 boxes and the '64-5 boxes is a slightly different gear ratio in the
reduction speeds and some beefing up for the 2nd gen  box.    Other than
that, they're hard to tell apart, inside or outside.   The biggest
difference is the input shaft, which in the '64-65 box is larger in
diameter, and the size of the teeth on the gears inside, which isn't easy
to see since the actual size difference is relatively minor.    I have
cluster gears on a shelf, including one first-gen, and one second-gen...
and I can't really tell which is which unless I mesh an input gear into one
of them that fits well and note what series input gear it is.    

As I recall, the brass blocker rings are close to being the same for all
early model Vair 4-speeds, the '64-65 variants being slightly larger... not
large enough to wear out that much slower, but larger so as to fit the
slightly larger synchros.    The issue wasn't longevity, it was
breakability if abused.    I'll maintain that either gearbox, treated with
normal care, will behave like the other and no differences are likely to be
noted between the two for a hundred thousand miles.    However, if you
really abuse the transmissions, the later box is likely to hold up better
in the long run than the earlier box.   

>The 64-65 4-speed is 
>MUCH nicer, more reliable and shifts silky smooth.  

?    I've not seen any difference in the way any early series Vair 4-speed
shifts.   They all seem pretty much the same.    And, they all shift nicer
than the "Saginaw" box (the name with which I use to define the '66-up box,
seeing as how ALL Corvair 4-speed transmissions were manufactured at the
Saginaw facility).      

Are you talking about the differences in the early (sideloader) vs late
(Saginaw) 4-speed transmissions?   If so, I'm in agreement.   The '66-up
"Sag" gearbox may be a little stronger than the '64-65 box and considerably
stronger than the '61-'63 box, but even considering this, the earlier
4-speeds aren't slouches by any means and are tough enough to stand up to
decades of use  without a whimper or a growl if they're treated like
gearboxes and not like demolition derby pieces.    

I agree that the '64-up 4-speed boxes are more durable if abused and were
beefed so as to handle stronger larger displacement engines... but they
shift no better than the earlier gearboxes and the blocker rings, as
mentioned, are the same so I don't see how they'd wear out quicker in
earlier boxes.      


tony..