<VV> valve adjustments

[Tony]

At 0718 04/20/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>Comments in text
>Bill
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Tony" <tonyu@roava.net>
>To: <VirtualVairs@corvair.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 10:34 AM
>
>>
>> Do you  not have to turn the engine several times to get the heel of the
>cam
>> lobes on the lifters t9o adjust the valve lash?   How much up and down
>running
>> back and forth does this take?
>
>Crank needs to be turned only once to adjust the valves cold.    

Humm...  if you're lucky.   


>> >To adjust the valves hot, you have to take the valve covers off, install
>a
>>
>> You do this no matter what method is used.
>
>No, you don't.  


?   You adjust valves without taking a valve cover off?    

>Because when you are adjusting them cold, you adjust them
>once, right after you install the rockers, then you install the valve cover
>and leave it on.   


>Once adjusted cold, they never need to be adjusted again.

Oh?    

Again, this might work out OK for a fresh engine just assembled, but an older
engine with some miles on it or a running engine that just got tube seals
would
maybe find itself needing a valve adjustment.  Again.  


>You only take the valve cover off if you have to do some work on the head.
>
><SMIT>

...like tube seals etc?   Or compensate for wear and tear??   Maybe need to
tighten up or replace a rocker nut that's not quite as tight on the stud as it
needs to be...?    

This more likely applies to a daily driver Vair than a trailer queen.    And,
there are still daily driver Vairs, got a couple.   And, on occasion
(especially if they have some miles on them) they  will maybe need a valve
lash
touch-up, especially if it's been years and who knows how many miles since a
valve cover has been off the engine.   A while back, a Vair engine was
acquired
with rattling valves (engine had been replaced, PO thought it was shot), came
to find two rockers off the studs lying in the valve cover.   PO must have
wondered why it had such a ferocious miss...   adjusted the errant valve
rockers to "three stud threads", engine is currently in storage in the
basement.    

I suppose this sort of thing happens to older engines with some wear...  no
trailer queen, this one.             



>> If the valves were noisy you'd have heard them and noted that when you got
>> home
>> you  were gonna adjust the valve lash...  the engine would be warm
>already.
>
>But if you had adjusted them cold in the first place, they never would be
>noisy when you ran the engine.

See previous paragraph above.   Wear and tear will mandate periodic
adjustments
if you put miles on the car.      


>> And that valve cover with the holes in it isn't a 1/3 cover, it's whole
>with
>> holes... ;)    And, it's secured with wingnuts on long shouldered studs,
>whip
>> 'em on in about 20 seconds.
>
>Great, one more part to get lost in the garage.  Not to mention having to
>clean it after use.

Humm... a wipe with a shop rag, hang 'em back on the hook with the little bag
with the wingnut studs.   I know where they are.    

How disorganized does someone have to be to loose something as large as a pair
of valve covers?   (those of you who know me, don't answer that)


><SMIT>
>> >clean up the oily mess,
>>
>> The oil I spill is about what gets spilled taking the normal valve covers
>> off.   A bit of kitty litter and all is well.
>
>I don't spill any oil adjusting them cold, because I do it when I put the
>head on, before there is any oil in the engine.
><SMIT>

So...  what do you do with an older recently acquired Vair with valves
clicking
because the lifters are gummy?   Tube seals maybe?.   Rocker hardware maybe a
bit worn, intermittent?   Lots of reasons to adjust the valves hot when maybe
you don't wanna wait around for things to cool off so as to adjust cold...
only
to find out afterwards that worn engine components have wider tolerances and
after adjusting cold you end up pulling the valve covers and doing it all
again, HOT, to keep the valves quiet.  BTDT too many times and don't anybody
start in on "well then, the engine probably needs rebuilding".   

I adjusted the valves on the '60 hot/running last time I did tube seals some
time ago and it's still quiet.     

>> >Gee.  I think I'll keep adjusting them cold.
>>
>> Whatever works best for whoever does it.   :)    BY  the way, it takes
>less
>> than 10 minutes to adjust them hot/running`and that includes the wingnut
>valve
>> covers.
>
>No matter how you figure it, the hot adjust takes longer.  At some point the

Not if you only do it once... on a used engine that has miles on it.   



Not *all* Vair engines are fresh rebuilds able to be set by the book.
Some of
them have 100,000+ miles on them and are examples of the Ronald Reagan
principle... meaning they will NOT get an arbitrary rebuild... which suggests
that adjusting those valves hot/running will work as well if not better than
the cold method and takes no more time IMHO...  especially when you only do it
once, compared to adjusting cold static and finding out that when the engine
gets hot it clicks and you wind up doing it again anyway.  

Now:  

How many times has it happened to others in here with an older engine that you
had to go back and adjust again after the engine clicked after warming up?   
It's happened to me enough to make me simply adjust hot/running and then I can
forget about it.   

Again, not *all* engines are fresh rebuilds on a bench getting the factory
manual style lash adjustment.  

>valves had to be adjusted cold, just to get the engine started.  Now, if the

Easy to hit on the fly, simply  by counting threads on the studs, far as
getting the engine up and running after a seal job.   Then a 5/8 socket and
breaker bar and about 10 seconds per rocker...  tops.   


>cold adjust was done correctly in the first place, the hot adjust would
>never be necessary.  Therefore, by definition, all hot adjusts are just a
>waste of time.



...I always thought that having to do the same job twice was a waste of
time...   and adjusting hot/running has never left me with having to do it
over
again, while adjusting cold certainly has.   Remember...  not all Vair engines
are fresh rebuilds with rock solid tolerances that don't change with
running.  




And once again... if the method works, isn't it useful for the purpose?   And
if someone else considers it a waste of time, perhaps they should consider
that
it's my time to waste... even if it only takes ten minutes...?     



tony..   

PS:  last time I did tube seals (on the '67 coupe) I didn't bother with the
holy valve covers, just adjusted and spritzed a little oil, cleaned up
afterwards no big deal because I'm not afraid to get dirty.