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V i r t u a l V a i r s C o r v a i r D i s c u s s i o n G r o u p |
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This document covers the organization of the Corvair Internet E-mail list known as Virtual Vairs, and has information and frequently asked questions (or FAQs) which new members and Corvair owners may find useful. To get the latest copy of this document, send mail to mailman@corvair.org with info virtualvairs on a single line in the body of the message. |
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| Disclaimer: All the information herein is correct to the best of our knowledge but we take no responsibility for errors. |
| Section 1 - What is an E-mail List and How Do I Join? |
An E-mail
list is an address which will accept then redirect anything sent to it.
The redirected mail is automatically sent to all members of a list of people
(i.e. the members of Virtual Vairs). The Corvair list is a free service,
provided you already have e-mail access, and the people who "run" it in
various capacities, do so on a volunteer basis. To be added to the list,
go to the following URL:
http://www.vv.corvair.org/mailman/listinfo/virtualvairs The list
administration is now (mostly) automatic. Simply fill out the online form.
You'll then receive a confirmation e-mail. Click the link in the e-mail
and select the "Subscribe" button to be subscribed to the list. You will
then receive a final automated confirmation message with a link to your
preferences page. virtualvairs@corvair.orgIf you are on the list, you'll get a copy as well. Note that bounced mail will, on occasion, come back to you, so if you get something that says "undeliverable" on it, it probably means some other user didn't get it. If you receive a copy of the mail you sent, then the list is functioning properly. Repeated bounces from a specific person should be reported to the list administrator at the vv-help@corvair.org address. If your address bounces for an extended period of time, you will be dropped from the list. If you think you've been dropped (that is, you haven't gotten any mail for more than a day), send a note to the vv-help address. If you don't get a reply, send a note to another list member, and ask them to forward your note to the vv-help address. Digest Corvair E-mail A digest version of VV messages is now available. To change over to digest mode, go to your subscription page and turn "On" the button in the "Select Digest Option" section.
Finally, the
messages that come to vv-help are read by humans, so if you have a problem
or question about the mailing system itself, send your mail there. Note
that these humans may or may not get to your mail immediately, so please
be patient. Note also that sending mail to the list itself might not get
*any* response. Use the vv-help address. |
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| Q) | How do I post a message to the list? | |
| A) | Send your
message to:
virtualvairs@corvair.orgNote: Yes, you send administrative requests to one address and messages to another. Please do NOT send administrative requests to the main list address. Thanks! |
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| Q) | What is the "daily digest"? | |
| A) | The daily digest comes out about three times per day and is a mailing of all the messages which have been posted to the list up to a limit of 20KB. The digest is one long message, consisting of each message posted to the list as received (in chronological order). | |
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| Q) | Why would I want to subscribe to the digest? | |
| A) | Most of
the people who subscribe to the digest prefer to have one long message per
day instead of 30 - 70 individual messages. Having one long message cuts
down on the clutter in your electronic inbox and may save in download or
storage charges, since the total size of the individual messages is usually
slightly larger than the digest message. If you're discouraged by the volume of Virtual Vairs email in your inbox, we encourage you to try the digest. We think you'll like it, and we'd like to keep you as a member of the list! |
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| Q) | I seem to be having problems with the list. What do I do? | |
| A) | Send a
message to:
vv-help@corvair.organd ask your question. You will be replied to by a human who will try to help you. |
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| Section 2 - Discussion format and basic netiquette when using an E-mail list. |
There really
is no format. Posing a question to the group will tend to reap incredible
quantities of information. Honestly. There are also many common and obscure
questions answered in great detail in the FTP files (see section 4).
If you visit the FTP information and find yourself still in the dark, then
by all means post your question to the list. To post to the list, compose
your letter as you would any standard E-mail message, then send it to:
virtualvairs@corvair.orgDepending on where you are, and how fast the system is running, you will get an "echo" of your message from virtualvairs@corvair.org between instantly to a day. Wait at least a day before thinking there is a problem. So far, flame wars have been relatively absent from the Corvair list, though sooner or later there will be one over some trivial matter like why early models are infinitely superior to late models. Any personal flame wars should be confined to private E-mail. Likewise, common electronic communications pitfalls should be recognized. People make typo mistakes. Sarcasm doesn't take too well to ASCII. Be careful what you read into another persons' message with respect to emotion and intent. For the new people to the list, if you have a question that is on the FAQ, check out the indicated material before asking the whole group. You might also want to look though the archived files (as mentioned in Section 3) before asking a question...since your question may already have been answered in an excruciatingly detailed manner! For the old timers around here (and you know who you are), all questions are valid, and there are no stupid questions. (Well actually there are, but nobody asks them :^) Finally, attempt to limit quoting text from other postings. Quote only what is necessary to preserve context, and edit the rest. Some of the subscribers to this list have to pay to download these postings, and they don't want to read the same message many times when following a discussion. This request applies to signatures as well. If you want to use a standard signature, please try to limit it to less than 5 or 6 lines. For further info, a classic document can be found at: This document location seems to be stable (won't change) and should get any updates. |
| Section 3 - Finding Archived Information. |
VV archives
from January 2004 to present are available at:http://www.vv.corvair.org/pipermail/virtualvairs/You can search the archived posts of all the corvair.org public lists with a little help from Google, just go to the main Google page and put something like: fan belt site: http://www.vv.corvair.org in the search box. This will use the Google search engine to look for any posts with the words "fan" and "belt" in them. |
| Section 4 - "So how do you get parts?" |
| There are quite a few mail order and retail vendors, many of which are listed every other month on the back page of the CORSA Communique, the monthly publication of CORSA (see section 6 for CORSA info). Still others have small ads throughout each issue. The following are members of VV: |
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| Larry's Corvair Parts & Rebuilding | Ph. 1-310-970-9233 |
| 14919 South Crenshaw Blvd. | http://larryscorvair.com/ |
| Gardena, CA 90249 | mailto:larry@larryscorvair.com |
| New, used, NOS parts, machine work. Credit cards: visa. mc, amex, disc. | |
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| The Vair Shop | |
| Ph. 815-469-2936 |
FAX 815-469-1354 |
| 21403 South 80th Ave. | |
| Frankfort, IL 60423 | mailto:larry@vairshop.com |
| New & used parts, mech services. Credit cards accepted. | |
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| American Pi, Inc.www.American-Pi.com | |
| Ray Sedman | |
| Sell: New and specialized high performance parts and services only. | |
| Services: Fuel Injection, Engines, Turbos, Head Work, etc. | |
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| Rear Engine Specialists | http://rearenginespecialists.com/ |
| Ph. (303) 278-4889 | FAX (303) 936-7420 |
| 16010 W 5th Ave Unit 12 | |
| Golden, Co 80401 | rearengine.steve@worldnet.att.net |
| Some parts, all mech services. | |
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| BA Performance | Ph. N/A |
| 28011 White Sand Tr. | c/o Brian |
| Moreno Valley, Ca. 92555 | vair1@pe.net |
| Specializing in high performance parts and machining. | |
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| SDCS | mailto:BobSlusher@aol.com |
| Just the following, all include US shipping: | |
| 1. Alum lic plate "180 hp Turbo Corsa" $9.00 ea. | |
| 2. Three colour litho Canadian Washer bottle label. $10 ea. | |
| 3. Two colour litho Canadian air cleaner decal. $10 ea. | |
| 4. Remanufacture, chrome/powder-coat Rampside gate latch resto. $80-100 ea includes shipping | |
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| Silicone Wire Systems | http://www.siliconewire.com/ |
| Ph. (408) 247-2237 | |
| 3462 Kirkwood Drive | Seth Emerson |
| San Jose, Ca. 95117 | Sethracer@aol.com |
| Specializing in high performance ignition wire. | |
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Many also now
have WWW sites. Take a look at the main CORSA page at:
and follow the links to the vendor pages. If you are a vendor, and would like to be added to this list, please mail vv-help@corvair.org |
| Section 5 - Useful Publications. |
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There are many
useful publications. CORSA (described in Section 7) has a monthly magazine
called the Communique which is filled with stories, editorials, technical
articles, tips etc. For historical and background reading, the best book is probably The Corvair Decade by Anthony Fiore. It is sold by CORSA for about $25. It's also available via Corvair parts vendors, and might be ordered from a local book-store. The publication information is: |
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For the Corvair
owner interested in factual and technical articles there is the Tech
Guide and the Tech Guide Supplement. This is a collection of
the best tech tips published in CORSA's magazine, the Communique
and it covers virtually item you can think of and then some: rust removal
& prevention; engines and repairs; bodywork & painting; brakes; heating,
ventilation and air conditioning; performance & handling modifications...
etc. The original Tech Guide covers tech tips published from 1979 through
1986; the Supplement covers from 1987 through 1997. This loose-leaf book
is printed by CORSA periodically, so check with CORSA on availability. Cost
for each book is $20 + shipping. The most useful publication for repairing a Corvair would be the GM Shop Manuals and Assembly Manuals for Corvair models. These are factory publications and they are still available from Corvair vendors, as well as from Helm, the original publisher for all GM shop manuals. These cost about $20. The factory parts manual is available direct from Chevrolet (and from parts vendors). You can also get free information about *your own* Corvair from Chevy. Call 1-800-222-1020 from 10-2 EST, and give them your Corvair's: year, model, and VIN (serial) number, and they will send you a "Restoration Package." Les Honke also posted the following for you Canadian owners: The current phone # is (905) 644-6624 (note the change in area code from below). What they will send you is what they call an 'option package' for the car that includes all the good stuff listed below. They apparently decode all the numbers for you and send copies of build sheet and other paperwork for the vehicle. But, they now want $40 for it (as Paul reported earlier), plus 7% Gouge & Screw Tax for a total of $42.80 CDN. The lady told me that due to demand they now charge for the package due to the amount of research required.Two other books still being reprinted that are valuable to the Corvair owner and enthusiast are: How to keep Your Corvair Alive by Richard Finch, and How To Hotrod Corvair Engines by Bill Fisher. Finch's book covers the whole car in an easy-to-read fashion; Fisher's book is somewhat more techni- cally oriented but covers more than just the engine, as the title might lead you to believe. Both of these books are available from Corvair vendors. Each of these books is under $20. |
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| In fairness, Ralph Nader's book Unsafe at Any Speed must, unfortunately, be mentioned. It was an attack on U.S. automakers for the lack of built-in design safety; Chapter 1 in the book was directed almost exclusively against the Corvair. Andrew White was incensed enough at Nader's book that he wrote his own rebuttal to it. Go look for *both* of these in a library. Read Nader Chapter 1, then read all of White and decide for yourself. Both books are out of print now, but they can be found in most large libraries. White's book is harder to find but it is available in the libraries listed below. The first initials are the state, second is the library code. We didn't have all the library codes, so you will have to get some librarian help in decoding them. Example: MA BRL is Massachusetts, Boston Public Library. |
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| Section 6 - Corvair Society of America (CORSA) information [per Oct. 1999]. |
CORSA (Corvair Society of America) CORSA, the Corvair Society of America, publishes the monthly 'Communique' magazine. CORSA has approximately 5500 members across the U.S. and the globe. Membership to CORSA includes subscription to the 'Communique'. CORSA also holds an annual national convention in a major city/site in the U.S. There are 130+ local chapters across the nation and a few international chapters as well; these are listed on the back cover of the 'Communique' every other month. You may join a chapter separately from joining CORSA, or vice versa. Both CORSA, and local CORSA chapter, memberships are encouraged. |
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Make check
or money order payable to:
CORSA, Inc.and mail to: CORSAExpect up to a six-week delay before the first magazine arrives. Local club membership rates vary, but are generally less than $20 per year. |
| Section 7 - Comments On or Changes-to This FAQ |
| This FAQ *may* not be perfect...so if you have comments or changes to suggest, please send them to vairorg@corvair.org The "virtual" officers of the group will receive and read your comments, and take them "under advisement." Thanks! |
| Section 8 - the Virtual Vairs Home Page |
We have a home
page on the World Wide Web (WWW) and it can be reached if you have a web
browser and the right network connections. The address is:
http://www.vv.corvair.org/Some of our previous discussions, member pages, and a form for subscribing and unsubscribing are there. Enjoy! |
| Section 9 - A Brief Corvair History |
|
Chevrolet Corvairs
encompass a line of cars built from 1960 (late 1959) to May 1969, and trucks
from 1961 to 1965. Among the cars were two-door coupes (all years), four-door
sedans (1960 - 1967), four-door station wagons with hatchback (1961-1962),
and two-door convertibles (1962-1969). A major change was made to the Corvair
line in 1965 when a new, sleeker body style was introduced. Many people
regard the 1965-1969 style as one of the best car designs of all time, both
foreign and domestic. Because of the styling differences between these,
the 1960-1964 cars are often called "early models" while the 1965-1969 are
called "late models". Truck models included pickups with a side-loading ramp (called the Rampside), pickups without the ramp (Loadside), window-laden minivan (the Greenbrier), and the standard cargo minivan (Corvan 95). These trucks were about the same size as a modern minivan from Dodge. About 1.8 million Corvairs were built from 1960 to 1969, and it truly was the first successful American production compact car. It was originally aimed towards the small car economy market which was, in the late 1950s, dominated by import cars like the VW Beetle. The economy-car image that Chevy intended quickly gave way to the demands of the public, to make the Corvair into a more sporty car. Bucket seats and 'four-on-the-floor' were popularized in U.S. autos by the Corvair. Engines All car and truck models had rear-mounted air-cooled horizontally-opposed six-cylinder engines, and all models had coil-spring fully-independent suspensions. The engines sizes were 140 cubic-inches-displacement (cid) in 1960, 145 cid from 1961-1963, and 164 cid from 1964 to 1969. Horsepower began with 80 hp (SAE gross measurement) in 1960 to a maximum of 180 hp (SAE gross) for the 1965-1966 turbocharged Corsa models. Transmissions were either a 3- or 4-speed manual, or a 2-speed automatic (the Powerglide). Two- and four-door car models weighed about 2500 lbs while convertibles, with the extra reinforcements, weighed about 2650 lbs. Air conditioning was also an option during much of the production, which added further weight while taxing the engine. Truck models weighed from 2800 lbs to about 3200 lbs depending on the model. Performance Performance figures vary widely depending on the model, engine, transmission, gearing, the test driver and if any passengers were on-board. Acceleration is the figure most people ponder and most-often quoted so we'll start there. One of the slowest examples would be a 1963 convertible with an automatic transmission, with the 84 bhp 145 cid engine, and a 3.27 ring gear in the differential. 0-60 mph could take about 21 seconds and top speed was just above 90 mph. This particular example has the smaller 1961-1963 engine (smaller displacement 145 cid, 84 hp), and extra weight from the reinforcements needed for the convertible body. A 1962 Corvair station wagon, similarly equipped, might be even a bit slower due to the increased body weight. On the fast side, for example, a late model coupe with the 4-carburator 140 hp engine (164 cid), 4-speed transmission and the 3.55 rear gears could run 0-60 mph in about 10 seconds, reach the quarter-mile in under 18 seconds and had a top speed of about 105 mph. The same late model car using the 180 hp turbocharged engine would have a similar 0-60 elapsed time, accelerate better at higher speeds (quarter mile in 17 seconds), and have a slightly faster top speed (in excess of 110 mph). Turbocharger "lag" prevents the car from accelerating faster than the 4-carb 140 hp non-turbo engine at *legal* road speeds. However, a *really* spirited driver could get much better acceleration (0-60 under 9 seconds, quarter-mile time in 16 seconds or better) by keeping the engine revved into the turbo boost range, and skidding the tires by slipping the clutch to keep the revs up. This seems great for performance, but it is not very good for the engine, clutch, and tires. These two examples give nearly the full acceleration performance envelope, from worst to best, for Corvair cars. There are many other combinations that come close to these two examples, and many more in between. Performance is more than just acceleration however, and in the areas of braking and handling, the Corvair excelled and was, in fact, equal to or better than every other contemporary American car. Typical 60-0 mph panic braking for a Corvair car was 140- to 160-feet on a dry surface (excellent even by today's standards, especially given Corvair's drum brakes), and cornering lateral accelerations were 0.60 g's (1960-1963 cars), 0.68 (1964) and .70 (1965-1969) on non-radial tires of the 1960s. A 1964 Corvette's lateral acceleration was 0.69 g's in comparison. Fuel economy for Corvair models, like performance, varied with the car model and options, but generally speaking 30 mpg (at 30 mph) and 20-25 mpg (60 mph) could be expected from car models, and a few mpg less for truck models. Corvair trucks generally weighed more than the cars but had the same basic engine (no turbos and no four-carb models though), so acceleration, handling, braking and fuel economy were all not as good as the car models. The trucks could, however, do what the cars could not: haul LOTS of stuff. Expect 0-60 mph in 17-24 seconds, and 17-22 mpg highway... your mileage may vary. Who Killed the Corvair? As for who killed the Corvair, ol' Ralph Nader really can't take the blame for that as much as people would like. The myth that Nader killed the Corvair still pervades the U.S. today, even more than 25 years since the last Corvair rolled off the production line. In fact, Nader was probably responsible for keeping the Corvair *alive* from 1967 to 1969! The most likely cause of the Corvair going out of production was Ford's introduction of the Mustang in mid-1964. The second generation Corvair, while it had more power than before, was not enough to offset the popularity of the V-8 (although only the Shelby and HiPo versions had any real performance advantage). The fact that the Mustang used a "normal" engine layout certainly made it a more comfortable choice for many buyers as well. Shortly after the introduction of the Mustang, Corvair development was internally stopped by GM (in early 1965), and development of its replacement (the Camaro) began. Corvair production continued all the way out to 1969 in spite of the deliberate developmental halt by GM, but the production was sharply curtailed by GM (rather than by sales as many have suggested). Some people speculate that Nader's drum-beating and the flurry of lawsuits actually prompted GM into keeping the Corvair alive in limited, but decreasing, production in 1967-1969. Without Nader (and his book), the Corvair might have vanished after 1966. It can also be argued that conventional water-cooled, front-engine economy compacts like the Ford Falcon, the Plymouth Valiant, and even the Chevy II (later called the Nova) hurt the early model Corvair, the Mustang was the dagger that wounded the late model Corvair, and the Camaro, Firebird, Mustang, Barracuda (and other pony-cars) finally killed the car Corvair. It is fair to say then that no single of these events killed the Corvair, and to varying degrees, all of them contributed. Nader Proven Wrong Because of the various charges made by the self-styled "experts" against the Corvair and GM, and the negative publicity created by a number of lawsuits (lawyers were just getting wound-up in the 1960s), the U.S. government commissioned a study of the early model Corvairs. According to the summary: "The handling and stability performance of the 1960-63 Corvair does not result in an abnormal potential for loss of control or rollover, and is at least as good as the performance of some contemporary vehicles both foreign and domestic."
This report
covered the 1960-1963 Corvairs, as well as the 1964 and the 1965-1969 models
with the various changes in suspension. In case you're "Evaluation of the 1960-1963 Corvair Handling and Stability" |
| Section 10 - What exactly is Virtual Vairs? |
|
Virtual Vairs
is a committee of CORSA, the Corvair Society of America. Like most sanctioned
CORSA chapters, not all of Virtual Vairs' members are also members of CORSA,
but "virtually" all are. Unlike most CORSA chapters, Virtual Vairs does not have dues or monthly meetings or a printed newsletter. Instead, Virtual Vairs has an ongoing, online discussion averaging 60 messages per day, with participants literally from around the globe. What few resources we need (a computer to host the mailing list, some server space for our Web pages) have been paid for by donations from Virtual Vairs members. Virtual Vairs has a committee chair, currently: Garth Stapon, vvchair@corvair.orgHow does Virtual Vairs conduct chapter business? Separate from the main Virtual Vairs mailing list is the VairOrg list, vairorg@corvair.org. This is an ongoing "virtual board meeting" of the chapter's officers and any other interested parties. VairOrg keeps an eye on Virtual Vairs, sets policy (e.g. no posting of GIF or JPEG files), and looks out for the group's future. If you are interested in participating in chapter business discussions, send Kent Sullivan a note and he'll add you to the VairOrg list. [As with other organization's board members, any VV member can write to an individual Org member, or post to the VairOrg list expressing concerns or opinions on how the list should be run.] As of October 2005, the members of VairOrg are: - Bryan Blackwell, bryan@skiblack.comAs of October 2005, the members of VairWeb are: - Gary Aube, gaube@corvaircorsa.com |
| Section 11 - Copyright and Other Legal Info |
|
By continuing
your subscription to this list, you agree to hold the Corvair Society of
America and the list owners harmless for any opinions expressed on this
mailing list. Opinions stated do not necessarily reflect the opinions of
the Corvair Society of America or the list owners. Subscribers are expected to maintain standards of "Netiquette" as outlined in Section 2 of the Virtual Vairs FAQ and referenced documentation. List owners have the right to remove any subscriber for breaching these guidelines or the guidelines outlined from the list at any time and without notice. Under NO circumstances may addresses from Virtual Vairs be compiled, collected or used for any purpose, commercial or non-commercial, other than mail regarding the topic of the list. The copyright to the subscriber list in its entirety is held by the list owner(s). Addresses may not be used for mass mailings ("spam") or databases without the express written permission of the individual subscriber. All lists are deemed to be "private", regardless of the Review setting. List addresses and member information may be used only for Virtual Vairs business as deemed necessary by the VairOrg members, which includes submission of said information to the Corvair Society of America. The copyright to an individual posting made to Virtual Vairs is held by the individual poster. The copyright to the compilation of postings to Virtual Vairs is held by the primary list owner/sponsor. Commercial redistribution of the postings made to this list without the express written permission of the copyright holder(s) is forbidden. All non-profit redistribution must credit at minimum the author or the source of the material. Receiving no response to a request to commercially redistribute individualist postings or any compilation of same shall not be considered an implied agreement to your request on the part of the copyright holder. --- E N D --- Virtual Vairs FAQ v 5.0 --- 25 October 2005 |
